Ok I can see there is a language barrier. When you say ” numbers of objects and elements created dynamically would be hard to fix.” I take it as you’re saying that the cloud cannot help with that. Ok so that’s not what your saying?

Cause you also said, “so basically all which may be pre-baked and stored on hdd may benefit from cloud computing – but any dynamic element rather not. <—- that last part, " but any dynamic element rather not." Dynamic elements like ocean waves, weather patterns, calculation of falling debris, all those are dynamic. Cloud aids in solving the problems of the challenges, like you said, "numbers of objects and elements created dynamically" bring about. So I cant understand why you would say it, " would be hard to fix." you understand? All proof shows that cloud solves and fixes these problems.

But I think we are saying the same thing. With you making the point that cloud would not render a polygon car. That I get. But the world that car is driving in can be made to behave more realistically via cloud.

"He said that calculate actual graphic using cloud won't work."

Here's the problem with that statement. The question was, ""Can cloud computing be used for next generation consoles to make them more powerful over time."

That was a very straightforward question. The answer is either a yes or no, but Cerny instead describes a situation that caters to the lack of understanding of masses. I refuse to believe that Cerny is stupid. So why would he answer that question that way? Put it this way, I think the questioner point of view were limited in regards to the tech in the 1st palce. Comparing it to whats already out there. So lets revisit that straightforward question today. ""Can cloud computing be used for next generation consoles to make them more powerful over time." And the simple answer is YES!!

Cerny answer undermines the possibilities. For what reason I don't know. Either his POV was also limited, or he was catering to the limited POV of the interviewer, and taking advantage of that fact, knowing that he was undermining XB1 tech. And we all know Cerny is not stupid.

When he said " calculate actual graphic using cloud won't work." to that question. Everyone translated it as the cloud as MSFT described it simply wont work! And that why there were so much doubt. He answered the question wrong and confused most. Think about it this way. Crackdown demo is a demonstration of how graphics was improved (falling debri, billowing fire and smoke) by aid of the cloud. W/O the cloud you would have to scaleback on local graphics (texures/res) to achieve some of the harder physics on your system locally. With cloud on you can improve graphics locally because you have the cloud acting as your CPU/memory.

I'm not an engineer by any means. It's just my understanding of all this so far based on what developers are saying now.

I wish I had your kind of detector haha. I typically base a games potential quality on its developer history, but sometimes that’s steered me wrong. I have no doubt that Uc4 will be great and I think Horizon looks like a lot of fun, but I’m not discounting the potential for it to be underwhelming. Ultimately I’m not big on the open world rpg titles, I’m more of a narrative driven gamer so i personally think QB looks to be more up my alley, but something about Horizon’s reveal so far actually has me interested in a genre i don’t typically go for, so I give them credit for that. I definitely agree that QB looks absolutely stunning, and Remedy have put out quality stories married with innovative and fluid controls with every release. The only concern I really have for it is the length, I always want proper epic campaigns for games like QB because they are so rare, gamers need to get the most out of them when they can because experiences like that won’t come around often. I never got the chance to play Alan Wake but that was the one game for the 360 that I wanted to play more than any other. Really hoping that becomes available through BC, I’ll be picking up an XBO at some point for those titles most definitely. Regardless of anyone’s preference 2015 has been littered w/ great titles here & there but it seems like 2016 is the year that developers finally start recognizing the hardwares potential and start putting out those generation defining titles we’ve been craving.

“Closest comparison would be The Order, the best looking game on the PS4. And what can they manage on that? 800p 30fps MOST of the time, and that’s w/o massive high polygon count NPC’s numbering near the hundreds, on screen @ the time while handling other forms of heavy FX.”

The Order uses a completely different engine than Ryse. Moreover, it uses 4xMSAA which is pretty expensive unlike the cheap AA solution used by Ryse. Cinematics also are in real time in The Order.

The game has a much better framerate too :

https://youtu.be/B4ocPKdyD7Y

1920×800 is superior to 1600×900 in terms of pixels… how many do we have to say that ?

And according to the developers, the game could easily run at 1080p without 4xMSAA : http://www.dualshockers.com/2014/02/06/the-order-1886-will-have-4x-aa-undecided-between-1920×800-and-1920×1080-lack-of-multiplayer-expained/

So, you clearly chose a bad example. To summary, The Order’s engine is far more demanding than that of Ryse.

“At this point you’re just hating! Don’t be weak. What can be accomplished on XB1 even @ an early time when the API was @ its worst doesn’t take away the merits of what the PS4 is capable of as of recent, with The Order.”

Blah blah blah…

You can’t compare RAD which never made a console game before The Order to Crytek which are among the most skilled developers for technical achievements.

Yet, RAD still managed to make a more impressive game simply because they worked on a more powerful console.

“The games will always do the talking.”

Indeed. It’s why by now you should understand which console is the less powerful after so many inferior multiplatform games on XB1.

Multiplatform games are the best way to compare these consoles since it’s the same engine running on 2 different platforms.

Multiplatform games were a less reliable measurement last gen because PS3 had a completely different architecture than 360.

This gen, both consoles virtually have the same architecture.

End of the discussion.

Crackdown doesn’t use cloud computing to generate massive object on the screen. Console is enough to do that. Crackdown is using cloud computing to calculate physic of their destruction.
Cerny DIDN’t say calculation of physic won’t work well on cloud. He actually said the opposite. He said that calculate actual graphic using cloud won’t work. And Crackdown doesn’t do that.
And no, you can’t improve resolution using cloud. You could put all prebaked lightning, ai and physic to cloud freeing some resources which might be used to improve graphics, but you can’t render dynamic object and send to console and still call it improvement – that would be video streaming, basically what gaikai is doing.
Render of the scene will have be done on console, or streamed altogether.

As for now we are already 2 years into new gen and we haven’t see any real implementation of this technology. Crackdown is a single game, which is not even released and we can’t be sure we actually seen the cloud based presentation, or, again, maybe that was a titan based PC’s – I’ll wait to release. And one game is not what I would like to see.

Trust me I’ve got mad respect for naughty dog. Xbox fan or not you have to give props where there do. What I said was not to be mean just meaningful. QB just beat out horizon zero for best graphics for an award from gamescom. So my comment does have merit. The time travel aspect of QB has been done in mostly movies but not to the extent where you can play the game and it effects the tv show that comes with it. I know other games had TV shows that tied in like defiance but not to the extent where the game you play directly affects the show. They created bullet time for gaming with Max Payne. They are taking that to a new level with QB. What other game do you know can freeze frame gameplay that you can interact with without stopping the frame rate. Its amazing!!! Not to mention they are one of the very best storytelling studios ever. We can talk about this all day long and you’re right we’ll know more when the games release. I’m the kind of guy that knows a good movie or game from trailers alone. Must be because I worked at blockbuster video for over 10 years a while back. I’m never wrong on these things and I’ll tell you in a heartbeat if a game or a movie is overrated or underrated.

I can absolutely respect your opinion but I’ll always be hung up on you calling them facts. Realism is fine for sure, but art isn’t all about realism to me. I mean if you want to take it further, time travel doesn’t exist so that’s unrealistic as well I suppose. I know that QB is doing some amazing things (the lighting is absolutely great, still not seeing many instances of decent draw distances in the handful of gameplay bits released in the last trailer) and I’ve read a bit of it, totally pumped for the game, but that goes both ways, if you’ll read up on some of the things ND is doing for UC4 or some of the things that Guerrilla is doing for Horizon you’ll see that MS isn’t the only company making technological advancements. I’m personally all about environmental variety w/in games and seeing something like Horizon being one open world that possesses so many different environments is just more appealing for my personal tastes than seeing similar sections recreated throughout an entire campaign. The world and the ideas behind Horizon is wholly original as well so that should be taken into account, haven’t seen those kinds of robotic creatures presented in that manner before really, and the story seems to suggest that they somehow became self aware and constructed themselves after animals from Earth’s history. As far as mimicry, you could say the same thing for something like QB or Ryse, only that they are mimicking real Roman history & architecture and that QB is mimicking the world outside your window. Its a lot easier to be faithful to things that already existed than it is to create brand new concepts and worlds that are purely fantastical. Either way I think its best to hold off on hyperbole for any of these games until they’ve been released in the wild, they could be absolutely better than you or I have imagined, or they could be complete garbage. In this day & age a few trailers or small sections of gameplay don’t necessarily represent the final projects.

I’m 100% with you on framerate. Not being able to sustain a solid 30 in my opinion is horrendous! What I’m NOT with you on is pretending I know better than the community of people who invented and built these graphic techniques that propels gaming imagery forward. Your ego that big? Fine. These pple knew exactly what they were talking about when they chose Ryse. Everything about graphics is technical because graphics deals with applying TECHNIQUES to achieve a desired result. Don’t get philosophical and try to change the meaning of things just to push your personal agenda. Not cool.

“Ryse would run at 1080p with a stable framerate on PS4.”

SO!? 0_o….I would certainly hope so, but Ryse is not on the PS4 for us to know for sure right? But I imagine it could. Closest comparison would be The Order, the best looking game on the PS4. And what can they manage on that? 800p 30fps MOST of the time, and that’s w/o massive high polygon count NPC’s numbering in near the hundreds on screen @ the time while handling other forms of heavy FX.

At this point you’re just hating! Don’t be weak. What can be accomplished on XB1 even @ an early time when the API was @ its worst doesn’t take away the merits of what the PS4 is capable of as of recent, with The Order. The games will always do the talking. They always reveal the truth of how to better define power when actual code is added to the mix. Dude let it go. Both systems are great and will supply us with awesome games moving forward. PS4 don’t need to be the ONLY console where you’d find great looking and playable games. I’m done. You can keep preaching your religion. Next year summer, I’m playing Crackdown!

Ryse never won any technical award…

http://cryengine.com/news/ryse-son-of-rome-wins-siggraph-award-for-best-real-time-graphics

How could it win such an award with its horrible framerate and its 900p resolution ? All of that in a very linear game…

https://youtu.be/i8Qib67ObcE?t=9m24s

Ryse would run at 1080p with a stable framerate on PS4.

There is a difference between graphics and technical achievements… even if good looking games tend to have a good technology.

I won’t waste my time with the rest of your message since i have already proved my point.

Sorry…

“so cloud can help with some things, but the resolution, numbers of objects and elements created dynamically would be hard to fix.”

Whoever said that, they must be eating crow right now. Can you link me to that please. I need a cite. But lets look at what’s being said. Crackdown showed off massive objects on screen being created dynamically. With the understanding of dynamic meaning changing, moving, that’s exactly what we saw in the crackdown vid. They did the same thing with NASA with their moving(dynamic) asteroid demo.

“so basically all which may be pre-baked and stored on hdd may benefit from cloud computing – but any dynamic element rather not.”

I’ll stick to what MSFT engineers said, and that’s any latency insensitive load can be handled by the cloud. That could be weather systems and how it affects the environment, moving objects in the distance, more realistic water FX lke ocean waves etc, and the list can grow depending how imaginative you are. All these things I mentioned behave dynamically.

On the topic of improving res via cloud. Wouldn’t that be dependent of design? If you design a game 100% for the cloud which handles all insensitive loads, freeing the local machine of handling those calculations, what would you as a game designer use all that free local computing for? Just a question. I’m not an engineer, but if the cloud can help free up local compute, then based on your game design(creativity) wouldn’t you be able to control what res you want your game to output?

When you witness graphic engineers, including those from Sony marvel @ the Crackdown demo, you now something special is about to happen. When a game designer openly admits that the cloud can help push graphics on the XB1 that the most powerful PC cannot do, you have to start paying attention. This is not crazy talk anymore, its not marketing BS anymore. Crackdown proved that.