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	<title>
	Comments on: Microsoft Cloud Improving Particle FX Unlikely In Upcoming Years Due To Infrastructure Latency	</title>
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	<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency</link>
	<description>Get a Bolt of Gaming Now!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 14 May 2014 02:40:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Squinty		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229854</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Squinty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2014 02:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229854</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229738&quot;&gt;Phillyblunz&lt;/a&gt;.

Yeah, I don&#039;t see that happening. Also I doubt the improvements would be as dramatic.

 Like I&#039;ve said in my other replies below, latency is caused by a bunch of things, including, like you yourself mentioned, physical limitations to the speed at which light can travel undistorted through fiber optic cable, and a bunch of other things. There isn&#039;t just one culprit. The best way to cut latency significantly would be an internet infrastructure overhaul, with everything that entails. It isn&#039;t really up to MS.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229738">Phillyblunz</a>.</p>
<p>Yeah, I don&#8217;t see that happening. Also I doubt the improvements would be as dramatic.</p>
<p> Like I&#8217;ve said in my other replies below, latency is caused by a bunch of things, including, like you yourself mentioned, physical limitations to the speed at which light can travel undistorted through fiber optic cable, and a bunch of other things. There isn&#8217;t just one culprit. The best way to cut latency significantly would be an internet infrastructure overhaul, with everything that entails. It isn&#8217;t really up to MS.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Phillyblunz		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229738</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Phillyblunz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2014 16:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229738</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-228917&quot;&gt;Squinty&lt;/a&gt;.

For the cloud to drop latency I heard the best way to do it is to replace the server machines with ultra fast RAM drives.


Most of the latency in cloud computing is the HDD seek time of the remote device apparently.  


It has been proposed that using RAM drives could reduce latency by around 100 times I think it was.


So 30ms ping now could be a 30us ping with this type of setup.  You would still have the base ping which is a factor of the speed an electron travels through a wire.  So say of that 30ms, 15ms is the HDD seek and 15ms is the time of flight, you could still see an improvement of 100%.


Guess what?  MS servers are not using RAM drives.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-228917">Squinty</a>.</p>
<p>For the cloud to drop latency I heard the best way to do it is to replace the server machines with ultra fast RAM drives.</p>
<p>Most of the latency in cloud computing is the HDD seek time of the remote device apparently.  </p>
<p>It has been proposed that using RAM drives could reduce latency by around 100 times I think it was.</p>
<p>So 30ms ping now could be a 30us ping with this type of setup.  You would still have the base ping which is a factor of the speed an electron travels through a wire.  So say of that 30ms, 15ms is the HDD seek and 15ms is the time of flight, you could still see an improvement of 100%.</p>
<p>Guess what?  MS servers are not using RAM drives.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dennis		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229393</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dennis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2014 12:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229393</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I welcome reveals at E3 and later this year.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I welcome reveals at E3 and later this year.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Squinty		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229166</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Squinty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 21:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229166</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229043&quot;&gt;jent&lt;/a&gt;.

We aren&#039;t writing it off completely, it&#039;s just not something that is doable in the foreseeable future. And definitely not to the extent prophesied by M$. It&#039;s not gonna happen during the Xbox One&#039;s lifespan for sure.
Right now, there is a much much simpler and cost effective alternative in the form of local rendering. 

A game has about 16 milliseconds to render a frame at 60 frames per second. That means that the request has to be sent to the cloud gaming server, processed and sent back in less than 16 ms. Currently, this can&#039;t be reliably achieved even with Google Fiber. Let&#039;s not even consider gaming at over 60 fps. 
Not only does the latency need to be 16 ms or less, but it needs to be like that all the time, it needs to be very solid. In reality, latency is very volatile, it fluctuates on a minute by minute basis, but for most stuff we do on the internet, it&#039;s not really a deal breaker. For gaming, it would be. 
M$ and Sony cannot guarantee a solid low latency, no matter what they do, because it&#039;s an infrastructure issue.
With local rendering, delay is only in the order of nanoseconds. 

Latency isn&#039;t caused by any one problem, but by a sum of factors that contribute to it. Main problem isn&#039;t with the part of the infrastructure that M$ and Sony can control, but with the rest of the things that they have no control over. 

If you&#039;re curious for more in depth information, I recommend this very detailed article, it explains everything better than I can: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229043">jent</a>.</p>
<p>We aren&#8217;t writing it off completely, it&#8217;s just not something that is doable in the foreseeable future. And definitely not to the extent prophesied by M$. It&#8217;s not gonna happen during the Xbox One&#8217;s lifespan for sure.<br />
Right now, there is a much much simpler and cost effective alternative in the form of local rendering. </p>
<p>A game has about 16 milliseconds to render a frame at 60 frames per second. That means that the request has to be sent to the cloud gaming server, processed and sent back in less than 16 ms. Currently, this can&#8217;t be reliably achieved even with Google Fiber. Let&#8217;s not even consider gaming at over 60 fps.<br />
Not only does the latency need to be 16 ms or less, but it needs to be like that all the time, it needs to be very solid. In reality, latency is very volatile, it fluctuates on a minute by minute basis, but for most stuff we do on the internet, it&#8217;s not really a deal breaker. For gaming, it would be.<br />
M$ and Sony cannot guarantee a solid low latency, no matter what they do, because it&#8217;s an infrastructure issue.<br />
With local rendering, delay is only in the order of nanoseconds. </p>
<p>Latency isn&#8217;t caused by any one problem, but by a sum of factors that contribute to it. Main problem isn&#8217;t with the part of the infrastructure that M$ and Sony can control, but with the rest of the things that they have no control over. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re curious for more in depth information, I recommend this very detailed article, it explains everything better than I can: <a href="http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-in-theory-can-xbox-one-cloud-transform-gaming</a></p>
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		<title>
		By: JerkDaNERD7		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229155</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JerkDaNERD7]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 20:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229155</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229023&quot;&gt;ps4lol&lt;/a&gt;.

Just wondering, do you play games for fun or are you this dense? Do you even enjoy anything?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229023">ps4lol</a>.</p>
<p>Just wondering, do you play games for fun or are you this dense? Do you even enjoy anything?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Squinty		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229154</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Squinty]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 20:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229154</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229069&quot;&gt;Reddz Foxx&lt;/a&gt;.

It wasn&#039;t an apology]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229069">Reddz Foxx</a>.</p>
<p>It wasn&#8217;t an apology</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reddz Foxx		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229071</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reddz Foxx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 16:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229071</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229018&quot;&gt;Dangerousjo 1985&lt;/a&gt;.

He thinks they look pretty with all the flashy lights. He thinks it should just be a solid large LED light like on his ps4 controller. While PS4 kiddies have a dumbed down touchpad real people are using Smart glass on phones to interact with their xbox ones .


Sony boss&quot; What else can we do to the Playstation?&quot; 

Sony exec &quot; MOAR LIGHTS!!!!&quot;
Whole room applauds!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229018">Dangerousjo 1985</a>.</p>
<p>He thinks they look pretty with all the flashy lights. He thinks it should just be a solid large LED light like on his ps4 controller. While PS4 kiddies have a dumbed down touchpad real people are using Smart glass on phones to interact with their xbox ones .</p>
<p>Sony boss&#8221; What else can we do to the Playstation?&#8221; </p>
<p>Sony exec &#8221; MOAR LIGHTS!!!!&#8221;<br />
Whole room applauds!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reddz Foxx		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229069</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reddz Foxx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 16:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229069</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229012&quot;&gt;Squinty&lt;/a&gt;.

Apology accepted.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229012">Squinty</a>.</p>
<p>Apology accepted.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Reddz Foxx		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229068</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reddz Foxx]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 16:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229068</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-228945&quot;&gt;ps4lol&lt;/a&gt;.

I hope your getting paid to troll cause you spend way too much time spreading your propaganda to be doing it as a fanboy... Its like you have to reply to every single person on every single article that has xbox in it.. But your no where to be found in a Sony article. 


If your not getting paid to troll and spread your &quot;opinion&quot; then you should be playing PS4 since its so much better.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-228945">ps4lol</a>.</p>
<p>I hope your getting paid to troll cause you spend way too much time spreading your propaganda to be doing it as a fanboy&#8230; Its like you have to reply to every single person on every single article that has xbox in it.. But your no where to be found in a Sony article. </p>
<p>If your not getting paid to troll and spread your &#8220;opinion&#8221; then you should be playing PS4 since its so much better.</p>
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		<title>
		By: jent		</title>
		<link>https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229043</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2014 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gamingbolt.com/?p=195693#comment-229043</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229006&quot;&gt;Squinty&lt;/a&gt;.

Thank you for your reply.  I understand how the internet backbone works.  I guess I was unclear in how I stated my understanding.


On an interesting note I did some additional digging and found that services like Gaikai and Microsoft Azure have been working to reduce the number of nodes and links between clients and servers.  They have dedicated and direct connections between the major ISPs in the US and their datacenters.  This should reduce the number of hops needed to connect client and server.  While it won&#039;t necessarily reduce latency to nothing it will help.  I don&#039;t think people should write off cloud computing and gaming. I think it has potential and so do many high profile companies.  But who knows they could all be wrong. :)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://gamingbolt.com/microsoft-cloud-improving-particle-fx-unlikely-in-upcoming-years-due-to-infrastructure-latency#comment-229006">Squinty</a>.</p>
<p>Thank you for your reply.  I understand how the internet backbone works.  I guess I was unclear in how I stated my understanding.</p>
<p>On an interesting note I did some additional digging and found that services like Gaikai and Microsoft Azure have been working to reduce the number of nodes and links between clients and servers.  They have dedicated and direct connections between the major ISPs in the US and their datacenters.  This should reduce the number of hops needed to connect client and server.  While it won&#8217;t necessarily reduce latency to nothing it will help.  I don&#8217;t think people should write off cloud computing and gaming. I think it has potential and so do many high profile companies.  But who knows they could all be wrong. 🙂</p>
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