‘It Was Just As Much Work On Both PS4 And Xbox One To Achieve 1080p/60fps’

“There are nuances and challenges with development on each console,” says Mel Kirk, Vice President of Publishing at Zen Studios.

Posted By | On 29th, Aug. 2014 Under News | Follow This Author @GamingBoltTweet


PS4 Xbox one

Ever since the release of Xbox One’s June SDK update, more and more developers have been able to run their games at 1080p. For developers who have not been able to ramp up the resolution, they were able to add more visual effects. The SDK update has bought nothing but good news for game developers so one can be hopeful that things will further improve in the next year or so.

Ever since the launch of the first wave of new games, there has been some sort of a consensus that achieving 1080p/60fps is easier on the PlayStation 4 compared to the Xbox One. After all, several games have ran better on the PlayStation 4 but that is not the case for all the developers out there. Zen Studios who have worked on Pinball FX 2 for the Xbox One and Zen Pinball 2 for the PlayStation 4, have been able to achieve the golden standard for both of their titles.

Granted that their games are not resource intensive but its intriguing to know their opinion on the new consoles, specifically which hardware made it easier for them to achieve 1080p and 60fps.

“It was just as much work on both PS4 and Xbox One to get the desired result,” Mel Kirk, Vice President of Publishing at Zen Studios said to GamingBolt.

Mel did however acknowledged that there are nuances and challenges with each consoles but they were ready for it. “The tables feel fresh, have a new level of polish, and play better than ever before. There are nuances and challenges with development on each console, but this is our third console generation and we are pretty accustomed to these challenges,” he added.

What do you think about Mel’s comments? Let us know below. On a related note, Zen Studios recently released Pinball FX 2 for the Xbox One. Interested players can check it our over here.

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  • Sticky Notes

    Um, I think we should save this for games of actual graphical consequence. You have games like Destiny where Microsoft sent in its own engineers to get 1080p, and then you have pinball. Its a little insulting to insinuate that this game shows the Xbox One’s power. Nor does the developer say that they couldn’t get 1080p without the SDK.

    • Israel Lopez

      Why get so defensive and keep hidden your real motivation and what you really wish to say? What you probably really want to say is that the Ps4 is the god of all consoles and you think it is 1000x more powerful than Xbox One. It is not. The fact that only a 10% bump in GPU resources (that were always there), but reserved for Kinect, has let many resource intensive and casual games go up to 1080p and achieve the same visual quality and FPS than their Ps4 counterparts, shows that Ps4 is basically identical in power to the Xbox One. Looks like any extra GPU power the Ps4 might have, is cancelled out on the Xbox One side of things with the extra CPU power it has.

    • demfax

      There will be no parity if PS4’s stronger hardware is being pushed. In essentially every way, the PS4’s hardware is more powerful than the XBO’s.

      If they’re the same resolution, PS4 will have a framerate or visual effects advantage, or its stronger hardware isn’t being pushed.

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +540 GFlops (40% greater) or more (1.3TF to 1.84TF), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support (volatile bit and onion+ gpu cache bypass bus), better performing CPU, faster unified memory, and less OS overhead.

      No amount of software updates is going to make up for that hardware gap.

      Exclusively 1080p 60 FPS console games on PS4: MGS V, CoD Ghosts, FFXIV, Tomb Raider, MLB The Show 14, Resogun, Trials Fusion, Diablo 3 (higher framerate), Project Cars, Metro Redux, TLOU Remastered, more.

    • Mark

      Fax, what’s ur opinion on 4A Games’ comments about what DX12 will bring for Xbox One?

    • demfax

      Same as before. No software update is going to let the weaker Xbox close a hardware gap, they can call it DX99, it doesn’t matter.

      Sony’s ICE team, Naughty Dog, and Santa Monica Studios will fully utilize PS4’s stronger hardware, so it will remain ahead in graphics performance.

    • Mark

      Got it.

    • Will

      Old post but pay no attention to someone who dismisses software. You got duo core IOS phones out performing quad core snap dragons because of superior software. Hardware isn’t the beginning and end of all things anymore. Such claims are ludicrous.

    • Mark

      Nah man, my last response to him was to allow his bias to show up. Lol. Heck, he needs to go check out the new term Nvidia’s been saying with GTX 980……Efficiency! Truth is, u can have the best hardware out, but ur limited by how much of it u can practically utilize. Throwing numbers around means little if ur not using every bit of that number. Like how Nvidia’s approaching their GPUs with more Gflops per watt, etc. Not just X amount of TeraFlops = more. Blah blah blah. What Microsoft and Nvidia’s doing with DX12 in regards to advanced, highly efficient algorithms (VXGI) is enough for me to be excited about what DX12 may bring next year.

    • ipaxton

      First of all the numbers you are spitting out are compute units and shader numbers it doesn’t mean squat on how each unit can utilize those numbers without good memory useage. 2nd of all both systems use amd so both get the same support. 3rd xbox CPU is faster at 1.75 vs 1.6 and 4th you forgot how xbox can utilize it’s Edram and side load memory. Finally last of all both can do 1080/60fps.

    • demfax

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +540 GFlops (40% greater) or more, +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support (volatile bit and onion+ gpu cache bypass bus), better performing CPU, faster unified memory, and less OS overhead.

      If they’re both running at the same resolution the Xbox version will have lower framerate, more screen tear, and/or less visual effects, or the PS4 hardware isn’t being pushed. Any game running on Xbox One can be run with better framerate/resolution/visual effects on PS4.

      Anyone with technical knowledge knew PS4’s game graphics performance would be better for the entire generation as soon as the specs were official. That was well over a year ago. Apparently it’s taking some people a LONG time to come to terms with reality.

      Every console or gaming device has a power budget that can be put towards resolution, framerate, or visual effects. PS4 has a higher total budget than Xbox, and good PCs have an even higher budget.

      Forza 5 or Horizon 2 would run better on PS4, and Driveclub would run worse on Xbox. Quantum Break would run better on PS4, and The Order would run worse on Xbox.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      “PS4 is off the shelf, brute force” is a myth. PS4 has several important customizations to GPGPU compute (8 ACEs, onion+ GPU cache bypass bus, and volatile bit flag), and unified GDDR5 RAM.

      PS3 was more powerful than 360, but a nightmare to code for. PS4 is both more powerful AND easier to code for. It’s a win/win for PS4.

      GDDR5 is superior to DDR3+on-die ESRAM in pretty much every way in terms of actual games performance.

      Even if Xbox had a far more powerful CPU and 10000GB of 10000 GB/s memory, it’s ability to render graphics is STILL limited by the weaker GPU. There’s no getting around the weaker GPU, there’s no free lunch.

      DDR3+ESRAM is still a size and bandwidth bottleneck and difficult to code for. The DMA registers help transfer data between DDR3 and ESRAM, they aren’t super special sauce.

      XB1 has memory size and bandwidth bottlenecks, weaker GPU and GPGPU, only 16 ROPs, and OS virtualization overhead that degrades gaming performance. Take your pick.

      DDR3+ESRAM is more complex and expensive yet resulted in a less powerful system than the PS4. It’s a lose-lose from a design perspective. It was a poor design decision for gaming graphics performance.

      Exclusively console 1080p 60 FPS games on PS4: MGS V, CoD Ghosts, FFXIV, Tomb Raider, MLB The Show 14, Resogun, Trials Fusion, Diablo 3, Project Cars, Metro Redux, more.

      If a game runs 50+ FPS average it’s generally called “60 FPS”.

      Don’t forget PS4’s +16 ROPs and better GPGPU support with 6 more ACEs, volatile bit flag, onion+ bus, fully unified GDDR5 memory instead of split ESRAM/DDR3, etc.

      PS4’s large GPGPU advantage will widen as devs take advantage of it. It’s not just 2 to 8 ACEs (asynchronous compute engines), but the volatile bit flag, unified memory, and onion+ GPU to RAM cache bypass bus. Not only does PS4 have more CUs to do compute on, but it can do compute work more efficiently with less impact on rendering.

      Examples of GPGPU include Resogun’s voxels, Infamous’ particle system, The Order’s soft body, cloth, and object destruction physics, and MGS’s simulated weather. To port those to Xbox devs will need to reserve already limited CUs for compute or remove those features entirely.

      Digital Foundry proves that PS4 multiplat games consistently run at higher res, framerate, and/or visual quality over Xbox.

      PS4 version of Watch Dogs has higher shadow quality, higher resolution, higher framerate, better depth of field, and far better ambient occlusion over Xbox.

      PS4 version of Wolfenstein has higher average resolution and higher shadow quality over Xbox. The Xbox version lowers resolution down to 960×1080 to maintain 60 fps. The Xbox version of wolfenstein is 1080p if you’re staring at a wall or empty room. Otherwise it’s lower during actual gameplay.

      PS4 version of Thief has higher res, framerate, and mostly higher visual effects. It’s superior in almost every way aside from trilinear filtering being traded off for parallax occlusion mapping over Xbox.

      PS4 version of Trials Fusion has higher resolution and framerate over Xbox. Texture data is identical with texture streaming times dependent on hard drive speed.

      PS4 version of BF4 has higher resolution, higher average framerate, and better effects over Xbox.

      Some use cherry picked screenshots from where a streamed texture was 0.01 seconds from fully loading and try to use it as false proof PS4 has worse textures. This is wrong and deceptive. Hard drive speed is the main issue in texture streaming load times. Installing a SSD in PS4 decreases texture streaming times dramatically. The texture data on most multiplats is identical.

      Texture data is identical between console versions. Sometimes texture streaming issues crop up in one or the other version, or even on PC. That’s generally dependent on hard drive speed. If you run a game off an SSD texture streaming issues are much less.

      Texture streaming issues can also happen if you start a game before it’s fully installed to the hard drive, or if you load from a save file and some textures haven’t been loaded from the drive into RAM yet.

      Texture streaming is a complex issue with multiple possible causes including drive speed, whether the footage is from a recently loaded save file where the textures haven’t been streamed into RAM yet, or whether the game hasn’t been fully installed to the HD yet.

      “Sharper colors” is just the crushed blacks bug on the Xbox that can be replicated by adjusting the contrast or sharpness on your display. Oversharpening and crushed blacks are a bad thing for visual quality.

      Xbox One AAA multiplats (Watch Dogs, Witcher 3, CoD: Advanced Warfare) will run 720-900p for the lifetime of the system.

      PS4 could run Ryse, Forza, Dead Rising 3, or any Xbox exclusive at higher res/framerate/effects, as it has more powerful hardware.

      Infamous is technically superior to Ryse in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc. Almost all of Ryse’s cutscenes are pre-rendered movies.

      The Order, Uncharted 4, Driveclub, and pretty much any Naughty Dog game will trump Ryse’s visuals while running at a higher resolution and framerate.

      Driveclub at E3 2014 was widely called the best looking console racing game, and impressions of The Order frequently cited that they couldn’t tell when the cutscene ended and gameplay began due to the CG-like nature of the visuals.

      Ryse is a 900p, 25 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with CG movie cutscenes in comparison.

      PS4 has plenty of room for optimization in terms of GPGPU, hUMA/HSA-like features, and unified memory.

      Exclusively 1080p 60 FPS console games on PS4: MGS V, CoD Ghosts, FFXIV, Tomb Raider, MLB The Show 14, Resogun, Trials Fusion, Diablo 3, Project Cars, Metro Redux, TLOU Remastered, more.

      The Order, Uncharted 4, Driveclub, and pretty much any Naughty Dog or Santa Monica Studios game will trump Ryse’s visuals while running at a higher resolution and framerate.

      Sony’s ICE team, Naughty Dog, and Santa Monica Studios will fully utilize PS4’s stronger hardware, so it will remain ahead in graphics performance.

      If devs claim Destiny is “1080p 30 fps” on both, PS4 will still have a higher average framerate and/or better visual effects (AA, shadows, particles, etc.), or PS4’s stronger hardware isn’t being pushed.

      There will be no parity if PS4’s stronger hardware is being pushed. In essentially every way, the PS4’s hardware is more powerful than the XBO’s.

      If they’re the same resolution, PS4 will have a framerate or visual effects advantage, or its stronger hardware isn’t being pushed.

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +540 GFlops (40% greater) or more (1.3TF to 1.84TF), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support (volatile bit and onion+ gpu cache bypass bus), better performing CPU, faster unified memory, and less OS overhead.

      No amount of API updates is going to make up for that hardware gap.

      Exclusively 1080p 60 FPS console games on PS4: MGS V, CoD Ghosts, FFXIV, Tomb Raider, MLB The Show 14, Resogun, Trials Fusion, Diablo 3 (higher framerate), Project Cars, Metro Redux, TLOU Remastered, more.

    • James

      You just copy and paste this everytime someone says something that isnt negative about the Xbox One. Go look at every Xbox article that uses discuss for the comments and demfax has posted this exact thing on every single article,

    • Sticky Notes

      Israel, your understanding is wrong. 4A recently had an interview with Digital Foundry. They said that the GPU powere available from Kinect is variable and that the improvements have been coming from updates that remove a lot of the overhead built into DX11. The PS4 is more powerful, we all know this. And that seems to upset you. But this is Pinball so I doubt that you have to worry.

    • Israel Lopez

      It doesn’t upset me that those on Sony’s payroll, or fanboy gamers who see Sony and nothing else, or investors in their company, want to fool others into thinking that Ps4 is the god of all machines even when PCs exist. I prefer Xbox One over Ps4, and my preference for Xbox started since the day I bought the first one sometime in 2001, and then my preference for Xbox got even stronger after the creation of Xbox Live, and then far more with the release of 360, BUT… I used to prefer Nintendo in the early 90s and Sony with its Ps2 between the release of the N64 and the day I bought the original Xbox. Ps4 will be worth its price whenever the good games come and the prices drop (considering the machine does a lot less than Xbox One can do since its release date, and now the gap has widened even more with the monthly updates from Microsoft – therefore I see no reason to justify spending $400 on a console for only about 3 worthy exclusive games released or soon to be released, when Xbox One can do everything else that Ps4 does beyond gaming… and much much better-), but to this date the superior released games, and the better graphics are on the Xbox One side of things (I still haven’t seen any game that surpasses Ryse or Forza V in visuals, and it has been almost a year since both were released). Only a Sony fanboy fails to see how Sony has lied time and time again regarding power and graphics: Back in 1999 they claimed Ps2 would be able to render Toy Story-like graphics, something not even possible to this date in any game. And they did that to keep people from moving on with the Sega Dreamcast and ensure Sega went practically bankrupt. Then when 360 came out, they asked everyone to wait for Ps3 because it was so much more powerful, and Blu Ray would do wonders for games, and it would have all these amazing graphical effects… and the fact of the matter is Ps3 multiplatform games look no better than 360, and many times 360 versions have much better performance and effects. Sony claimed the “god of processors”, the Cell, could be used for GPU-like features, but that never came to fruition. Now we have people trying to claim Ps4 is as much as 50% more powerful than Xbox One!! If that was the case then I would have to expect that the games where Xbox One can output 1080p and 60FPS, the Ps4 should comfortably do it at native resolution very close to 4K at 50+ FPS, or well over 90FPS at 1080p. The truth so far has been that more than quite a few developers are struggling to get some of their games running even at 900P and 60FPS, not only on Xbox One but also on Ps4: Last example, The Witcher. The Xbox One’s CPU is identical to Ps4’s but running at 1.75 Ghz, vs Ps4’s 1.6 Ghz and that is a fact. The information about each machine’s GPU is more of a mystery. Some people claim to have all these numbers and charts and comparisons, but there is nothing as clear and official as the information on their processors. Let the games and time and history speak for itself. 5 years from now we will be able to see where each console stands. I own every major console from the last three generations, so I can criticize each one and pick one as my favorite and most important of all, I play the good games no matter on what platform they are. Sony could go bankrupt for all I care though. I wouldn’t mind spending money on one less console, and the only games series or types I care about on the PlayStation side, like Uncharted, Heavy Rain and Gran Turismo, would just get developed for the Xbox. Nintendo I want always to exist though and they were the ones who practically created console gaming. Sony has only been a bully, a liar and a thief. PlayStation (Psone) was developed between them and Nintendo. Then they broke the deal, stole the tech and released the console for theirselves. That’s their real history. They shouldn’t even exist.

    • Sticky Notes

      You are taking this way too seriously. And you have alot of your facts wrong. I too owned the original Xbox as well as PS1/PS2. And yes I did enjoy my PS2 more. I also just built a rig. However I enjoy playing games on my PS4/PS3 on a TV and I keep my PC in my office. The console war is getting too you. It must bother you that the Xbox One both less powerful and selling less than your console of choice.

      I have a recommendation. Don’t be so invested in an object. If you enjoy playing it, it shouldn’t bother you or make you mad that a competing device is performing and selling better. In the past and even today there are things that I like that aren’t that popular, but I don’t try to make it seem like people are wrong for making their own choices.

    • demfax

      Almost everything you just said was wrong. Lay off the misterxmedia kool-aid.

      Anyone with technical knowledge knew PS4’s game graphics performance would be better for the entire generation as soon as the specs were official. That was well over a year ago. Apparently it’s taking some people a LONG time to come to terms with reality. It’s going to be a very long generation for you.


 

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