Devs Really Like PS4’s GDDR5 Memory, GPU Will Become Obsolete Eventually But That Doesn’t Matter

“Consoles are about making the most with the hardware you currently have,” says Jakub Mikyska from Grip Games

Posted By | On 24th, Apr. 2015 Under News | Follow This Author @GamingBoltTweet

ps4 amd

Tower of Guns for the PlayStation 4 launched recently and GamingBolt was able to conduct an interview with the game’s developer Jakub Mikyska from Grip Games. In our interview we asked Jakub what kind of advantages did the unified memory architecture brought to the development of Tower of Guns.

“Our games aren’t really pushing the envelope of visuals enough for GDDR5 to make any difference,” he said to GamingBolt. But he did shared his views on how developers are feeling about GDDR5 and the PS4’s GPU.  “From what we hear from other developers, working on AAA projects, they really like GDDR5. The GPU is working quite fine. It is not the most advanced piece of GPU out there, but it does not have to be. When creating games for just one GPU, you can be much more effective.”

“And like any other technology, it will all become obsolete eventually. But that does not matter now. Consoles are about making the most with the hardware you currently have.”

Tower of Guns is now available on the PS4. We recently reviewed the game on the PS4 which you can check out over here.

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  • MrSec84 .

    I don’t see why you wouldn’t like it, 8GBs of storage, 172GB/s of real world bandwidth, no limitations on Reading from and Writing to memory in all cycles.

    It’s what makes PS4 a HSA machine.
    Allows full hardware based tiling for up to 32 Terabytes worth of textures using AMD’s Partially Resident Texture tech.

    Awesome stuff really!

    • Guest

      I see that you think that its 172GB/s actual bandwidth but I wonder what it really is. I know you got that number from the Ab’s Odysse guy. But do you know if the PS4 is hUMA? Also what limitations are you talking about on the reading from and writing to? I know you are comparing it to the X1 but I’d like to be more clear on what you are talking about. And how about the CPU/GPU sharing bandwidth contention? Also, how well do you understand the whole PS4 bus system? Im talking about Garlic, Onion and Onion+ and the volatile bit. Can you explain it to me?

    • HAppY_KrAToS

      Hi, Marc Cerny 😉

    • MrSec84 .

      176GB/s is the theoretical Bandwidth for PS4’s memory, 172GB/s is what the memory operates at, real world, as in what it really is.

      No developer has disagreed with Stewart Gilray, even after that quote being out in public since August 2013, so there’s no reason to think bandwidth is any less than that in reality.

      Yes PS4 is hUMA.

      hUMA/HSA is about memory coherency, you can’t get any more coherent than a change to memory being instantly viewable by either CPU or GPU or both the moment either reads or writes to it, which is the whole point of a HSA designed and implemented system.

      GDDR5 can both read and write in each cycle of memory access, meaning that developers can choose to use it how they like when they need to.

      DDR3 cannot be read from by the CPU, if the GPU is writing at that time and the same goes if the GPU wants to read from memory and the CPU is writing to it, GPU doesn’t have this problem.

      As for CPU and GPU contention issues, there really can’t be much if any, not when you have 172GB/s of bandwidth and the GPU only needs a maximum of 150 odd GB/s, that automatically leaves around 20GB/s available for the GPU.
      Even if the whole 140GB/s max bandwidth thing was true you’d still be talking about 120GB/s available to the GPU and 20GB/s to the CPU, but it makes no sense for things to drop that low, not when you’re talking about one DIE access a single pool of memory, the only issues would be in how developers use that single memory pool and proper code design.

      As far as the buses go, usually a GPU has 2, one for VRAM, another for System Memory, those have to use the internal caches of the GPU, but PS4 has an additional bus, which is rated at 20GB/s that has direct access to PS4’s memory system, rather than having to go through the GPU cache.

      It’s like this, three buses, CPU to memory 20GB/s, GPU to Memory 176GB/s and 20GB/s between CPU & GPU that bypasses GPU caches.

      The Volatile BIT is basically a tag system for GPU Compute jobs, if developers choose to use it they mark those jobs so that the GPU prioritizes compute tasks when GPU resources become available.
      Essentially it’s a compute job storing system, designed to allow developers to decide how they want to manage their workloads within the GPU.


      WOW……. never knew it was like that…….

    • Allah Akbar


    • JerkDaNERD7

      Geez you are full of crap. Otherwise they’d would be hitting 1080p/60 frame rates no problem.

    • MrSec84 .

      1080p/60 means nothing by itself, it’s not a performance metric unless you take all elements that effect processing performance into consideration.

      All that I mentioned is fact.

      Developers haven’t been building their games to really take advantage of it yet, since most titles (particularly cross gen) were designed to work on both generations of consoles and PC and last gen had the bigger audience developers had to wait until install bases grew and software sales started to favor the 8th gen, things will shift soon.

      PS4, like XB1 is designed to spread CPU code wide, so as not to bottleneck compute workloads, without simple API features to allow that to be easy for developers to implement in their games you cut off a big chunk of performance, but GNM/X has been updated to make that easier for devs, just like DX12 will for XB1.
      GPUs can handle AI, Physics, Audio and Graphics now, which developers have to take into consideration from the start of designing their games.
      The Physics libraries were added in SDK update 2.0 last year for PS4, more have probably been implemented since then.

      Last gen PS3’s API was optimized down to the binary level by the ICE Team, there’s no reason why that won’t be the case this gen.

      FYI PS4 is the only HUMA/HSA console to date, XB1 isn’t HSA, because it’s CPU and GPU aren’t sharing a single pool of memory for everything those processors commonly work on.
      HUMA stands for Heterogeneous (diverse in character or content), Uniform, Memory, Access, your system can’t be that if it’s CPU doesn’t have direct access to eSRAM, which is the case in XB1.

      I’m full of nothing but the truth!

    • JerkDaNERD7

      This is old news and surprised this still exists, lol! This has already been debunked since early last year. By the time either console launched, hUMA (an efficient form of HSA) was still behind the scenes and haven’t been implemented til’ the kaveri architectures launched. Also PS4 never needed it since it had it’s own HSA design, ALL APUs have HSA. It can’t function without it, it’s a fundamental design of an APU architecture. This was already provided in Hotchips conference specifically for XOne:

      “CPU-Cache-“Coherent” Memory Access”

      All buses bandwidth going straight there, including the eSRAM. Even the Dx11.3 SDK leak revealed a Windows HSA kernel, lol! Download the SDK if it’s even available, and do a fair amount of reading IF your capable and you’ll see clear as day.

      So all you’re doing is carrying on a flawed rumor that I’m surprised some of you STILL believe til’ this day. Your original comment is flawed in every way about read & write processes. The whole function of XOne was for that exact purpose, with the memory caches handling all the memory by read & write with a theoritcal peak BW of 204 GB/s, wow! Even XOne’s coherent cache has a larger BW of 30GB/s than the PS4’s asynchronous implementation as you see in the pic, lol!

      As you read here in the “update” ( ), even an AMD representative claimed that PS4 having hUMA is inaccurate since both console APUs are based off the kabini architecture, but doesn’t mean they don’t have HSA.

      As stated your comment is full of crap buddy, attach sources and be less vague about it. ;D

    • Psionicinversion

      actually the first true HSA implementation in an AMD APU will be Carizzo, all previous ones where just HSA compatible

    • Guest

      Amen, brother! Keep spreading the facts. Im tired of hearing all these MS fanboys always spewing their assumptions and hopes and dreams instead of facts.

    • JerkDaNERD7

      Yet I proved him wrong!

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      LOL no. Bandwidth is constrained and CPU is too weak to take the data in. RW Bandwidth is 140GB. GPU is also under too much load to take in

      You are full of MisterCernyMedia’s garbage.

      HSA and hUMA are PC Only. And will be PC Only

    • MrSec84 .

      LMFAO yes. Bandwidth isn’t constrained in the slightest, not by the use of some multi-threaded code being use on the CPU.
      As I said in my last reply to you the latency is comparable to 2133MHz DDR3, which is fine for a PC set-up.

      You have a source that says PS4’s bandwidth drops down to 140GB/s when both CPU and GPU use it?

      You don’t, because there hasn’t been a single developer or document that confirms the max bandwidth to go that low, when both CPU and GPU access RAM, it really makes no sense given we’re talking about a single die accessing one pool of RAM.
      Code should be multi-threaded on the CPU and GPU, which PS4 is designed to handle.

      HSA is all about unified memory access for the CPU and GPU, both work together to minimize excess reads and writes.
      PS4 is both HSA and HUMA because it’s a completely unified design.

      In an APU based PC it would be a similar deal because you have one pool of DDR3, in a PC with an external GPU to the main CPU die you have a separate pool of VRAM that the CPU has to access through not only multiple buses, but also through the GPU’s separate interface.
      Some PCs are HSA/hUMA, but only certain ones that comply with HSA/hUMA regulations.

      XBox One isn’t HSA/hUMA because the GPU is what directly accesses eSRAM, meaning efficiency is lost if the CPU accesses that pool of RAM.

      None of this is garbage kid, it’s all fact, I suggest you read up about AMD’s own technology before making such claims.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      I read up on it. All on PC with powerful GPU’s that can pool memory themselves. Very little applicable to PS4 since it’s so weak.

      Keep yelling about “MUH SEKRIT SAUCE” and “MUH OPTIMIZATIUNS”. The only thing you see in your future is 30FPS, loser.

    • Guest

      Wow, you did a great job explaining it, cuz you really help to straighten it out for me. Both well put and well said. I never knew that the GPUs buses to the VRAM and the system RAM had to go through the GPUs cache in a conventional PC. So its good to see that the PS4 has a bypass bus straight to the system RAM.
      I also didn’t know about the GDDR5/DDR3 reading/writing limit of DDR3 vs GDDR5. That’s also great news on PS4s part.
      And I remember reading that with hUMA you don’t need to copy memory from the VRAM to the main/system RAM, are you sure its HUMA?

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      That is some MisterPlaystationMedia nonsense. Single pool of GDDR 5 is too latency bound to do anything worthwhile.

      Copy pasting Sony’s PR is rather silly when we all know it’s weaksauce hardware and the only people screaming GPGPU, Async Compute and HSA are shills trying to convince people there’s a secret sauce. It’s all rather pathetic.

    • MrSec84 .

      Rubbish, GDDR5 Latency at the clock speed of PS4’s set-up is comparable to 2133Mhz DDR3, although AMD Jaguar cores aren’t latency due to their good branch prediction.

      Except when Sony’s PR is confirmed to be accurate by AMD’s very own recent tech documents.
      This is all fact kid.

      As for the “weak sauce”, that’s all relative, it’s not weak compared to the other consoles, which is the point.
      Yes it’s weak compared to a decent spec PC, but not compared to what the majority of PC gamers have.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      Actually the steam hardware survey showed that most PC owners are beyond PS4 specs now with Nvidia being the most popular GPU.

      And Sony’s PR was all theoretical. None of it actually happened. Mostly because the PS4 is garbage :^)

    • kreator

      She can’t, cause she’s a Phony shill!

    • Cenk Algu

      LoL it is you again and dont you believe in Sony again on this max135gb/s? come to the real World.The PS4 has nothing what you mentioned above.This is just self delusion

    • MrSec84 .

      It’s all fact, not my fault if you wanna keep burying your head in the sand kid.

    • Cenk Algu

      Nothing is fact.There is no way that the PS4 can reach 172gb/s if it could,It had no AF problems with the games.The GPU has more CUs but using 4CU as GPGPU because of weak CPU+GDDR5 Ram combination.That %50 more power is nothing but a dream even Mark Cerny admitting this.

      32terabytes texturing per second.You must be dreaming

    • MrSec84 .

      PS4’s bandwidth is confirmed by an unbiased, multiplatform developer.
      As for the AF comment, you should know if you’ve bothered to research that there aren’t any issues with AF, the ICE Team confirms PS4 should be perfectly capable of 16X AF, games that were launched without AF or low AF have been patched, like Dying Light.
      The lack of AF is because of the differences in APIs between systems.

      CUs can be used however developers like, that’s the point of the extra ACEs, they’re in the system to make sure no GPU resources are wasted, basically they’re an efficiency gainer.

      It’s a fact based on the physical hardware differences, Cerny said no such thing, I don’t think he’s ever made a claim for how much of an actual difference there is overall, but 50% more shaders & TMUs is a fact, differences in the scale of fast memory and additional Bus that can bypass GPU cache for direct access aren’t anything but real.

      32TBs is what AMD’s own PRT allows, it’s not stated whether that’s per second or whatever and I never said such a thing, so you’re twisting my words there.

      I’m not dreaming here kid, I’m just reiterating what the official sources have said.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      There’s no facts. Just PR and “secret sauces” that only exist for PC.

    • MrSec84 .

      No that’s AMD technology and nothing secret about it, because Sony declared it or rather Mark Cerny did when he was talking about the tech in PS4.
      AMD have also detailed all of the stuff I mentioned.

      The only secret sauces are the invention in XBox Fanboy’s heads, like split GPU and other made up junk.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      Nope, Cerny made them out to be secret sauces and now they are only on PC. Stay mad

    • Riggerto

      As much as I like PS4, specs on paper can be deceiving (I mean compare “on paper” a gtx 780 vs a gtx 980 – a 980 is better in real world terms even tho it’s numbers are lower in many categories).

      In real world terms a PS4 even struggles to output 1080p with all the bells and whistles (ie – AF, AA, draw distance, more than 30fps etc…) compromises are always being made to squeeze power out of it. when tech sites try to do PC/PS4 comparisons they use something like a gtx 660 with budget CPUs because that it is comparable to a PS4.

      But that is why a PS4 costs as much as little as it does – if it was more powerful it would cost more (like a PS3 at launch). It’s cheap and it works.

    • Michael Norris

      He already explained why these games right now don’t take advantage of the Ps4 hardware.

    • Guest

      Your reply doesn’t make sense to his comment. Its like you’re having a different argument with somebody else.

    • Riggerto

      The gist of my argument was – there are many impressive debates/comments (like the one above) about console specs and “the secret sauce” in both of them but in real world terms they both struggle to do basic stuff like AF, AA, long draw distance +30 fps 1080p.

    • Marley Gibson

      Does not have FULL HSA support…..

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      140GB bandwidth
      5.5GB available to games
      Too underpowered to use HSA

      Pathetic stuff, really

      PC should do nicely in the next few years though :^)

    • MrSec84 .

      172GB/s real world bandwidth, never disputed by any of Sony’s own tech docs for PS4 or any developers, confirmed by an unbiased party in Stewart Gilray who is an independent developer that has worked on multiple platforms.

      Technically 6GBs are available, confirmed by Naughty Dog’s tech breakdown on Dualshockers and Guerrilla Games Killzone post mortem.

      HSA isn’t about power, it’s about efficiency in the hardware design.

      Whether it’s pathetic is entirely subjective.

      I agree that PC’s with sufficient enough specs will do very nicely, they already do if you have the hardware, but to say such things in a blanket “all PCs destroy everything” kind of way is very misleading.
      Not all modern gaming PCs have specs close to PS4 or even XB1 for that matter.

      Assuming the rumors of AMD’s Zen APU are true, HSA as a part of a system with multiple GBs of HBM.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      LOL Sony PR. More like MisterPlaystationMedia with the amount of deluded losers screaming “MUH GPGPU”, “MUH HSA”, “MUH HUMA” which are all real technologies only on PC and Sony wheeled them out as PR.

      Oh and ND’s tech breakdown showed 4.5GB with a floating 1GB pagefile so 5.5GB. You are a liar too

      And most PC’s are past PS4 according to Steam Hardware surveys. PC rules all :^)

  • miyamoto

    PlayStation is All about the Third Party Developers since day one of the PSX.
    Often imitated but never duplicated.
    Kudos to Mark Cerny for prioritizing 3rd Party Dev input in the creation of the PS4.

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      All about garbage hardware and bowing down to EA

      Cerny’s a hack :^)

    • miyamoto

      dont kid yourself

    • You Are Flat Out Wrong

      I don’t. Consoles suck this generation. Consoles sucked last generation. Sony are just the Japanese Microsoft. Same garbage, different country :^)

    • miyamoto

      You mean Windows PC is just like Microsoft Xbox One. Same garbage company different brand.


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