DirectX 12 And Mantle Have Draw Call Performance of 7.5 Times of DirectX 11

Mantle and DirectX compared.

Posted By | On 21st, Nov. 2014 Under News | Follow This Author @GamingBoltTweet


amd dx 12 mantle

AMD recently held a presentation in Singapore talking about the future of GPU technologies. The event was titled Future of Compute and it was attended by the industry’s top developers. During the event, Futuremark’s Oliver Baltuch took center stage to gauge the differences between DirectX 12, DirectX 11 and Mantle.

Futuremark’s provides PC and mobile benchmark tools which includes 3DMark. Using 3D Mark, Oliver showcased the difference between DirectX 12 and Mantle. Surprisingly the performance of draw calls on both the API is similar but when one compares it to DX 11, it’s almost 7.5 times greater.

Draw Call is one of the performance parameter which is an indication of how many objects can be drawn on the screen and it seems like DX12 and Mantle have the same capacity. Now we are not sure whether this will hold true in case of practical implementation as AMD’s Mantle is still being adopted by developers and DX 12 is still a year away.

Other advantages of DX12 include 50% reduction in CPU cycles and bottlenecks in a dual GPU configuration. It should possibly benefit the Xbox One as well since it uses an API which is similar to DirectX.


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  • Psionicinversion

    death of the consoles starts here

    • Satsumo

      X1 will be getting DX12.0 – so how exactly does this equate to death of the consoles?

    • Psionicinversion

      the main advantage of the consoles has always bin there low level access, low level CPU overhead to push there hardware to the limit. PC hardware has always ran quite far from there true potential, mainly because its always changing and CPU bottlenecks but with DX12/Mantle weve got low CPU overhead and something like 5,000-10,000 draw calls upto 100k per scene easily now.

      So PC hardware will be much better utilised and even low end hardware will start really stretching its legs and pounding the consoles into the dirt and well high end hardware means far more complex scenes and closer to the full power it can output. also apparently a 750Ti runs games on par if not better than PS4 and you cant get much lower than that.

      Also as Phil Spencer has mentioned 1 million times DX12 WILL NOT affect the X1 because it already has low level drivers and low cpu over head. It will however make it much easier to port the games between console and PC

      Also when the next consoles come out and there budgeted the same as these without taking a loss on them enough AAA devs will be using lower level access on PC and you are going to see a substantial difference in visuals from low end/consoles to what a high end PC can do or even how much greater the performance is of mid range hardware compared to the consoles

    • Reddz Foxx

      The TLDR version. PC API is going to be on par with console in terms of overall efficiency. It is unknown and unproven DX12 will offer any substantial performance benefits for consoles.

    • Psionicinversion

      did you completely miss the part where i said DX12 will have no impact on consoles or something?

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      All Xbox One fans seem to miss that, but MS has positioned the information about DX12 in a manner that low-information gamers would come to this conclusion.

    • Psionicinversion

      i think it will help in streamlining the code, may help it to achieve 1080p/better framerates/consistent framerates in more cpu heavy games but end of the day its limited by its GPU

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      i think it will help in streamlining the code

      You could say that about ANY update. 🙂 The fact is MS would be marching in the streets about this update if it was going to be a game changer. It will help, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not suddenly going to make the XBONE on par with PS4 in terms of gaming prowess.

    • Psionicinversion

      welduuuuuh ps4 has 530 gigaflops of extra power BUT int he real world with games these days m,axing out at 5.5TFLOP’s that 0.53 is tiny. dont you lot see that??? the difference between x1 and ps4 is tiny. when i grab my 390x next year if rumours are true itll be 4096 SP;s about 3.5-4x raw power with 640GB/s of HBM. probably pushing 6-7TFLOPs, your little GPU war is TINY…. get it through your head

    • Satsumo

      I agree PS4 and X1 are much closer in performance that some people would like to believe – this is born out of the fact that some of the 1080p games are showing better frame rates than PS4 games. Swings and roundabouts,…
      But I have a £2k PC – which I’ve played BF4 (and other games) on – I still prefer playing on my X1. It’s not just about performance (and too be honest the performance gain I get for spending an extra £1700 isn’t worth it – you hardly notice it).
      Apologies if you disagree but that’s just my opinion based on my actual experiences.

    • Psionicinversion

      i actually think the xbox is getting closer to ps4 than the ps4 is trying to pull away tbh, its odd because the PS4 APU is not HSA by design infact only the next gen Carrizo APU is fully feature complete HSA. Kaveri and below is just compatible (not fully featured) we oretty much just had that confirmed.

      But X1 design is supposed to be HSA complete with ddr3 and esram having coherent memory which is what HSA is all about. So maybe X1 has more power left to give but it gives another problem.

      If HSA is so good why is AMD producing 2 completely redesigned chips the k12 (APU) and ZEN (desktop) based upon SMT i.e. samething as hyperthreading,.

      so have to see how it goes

    • Reddz Foxx

      I missed the part where you said you were a Microsoft employee. Please refer me to the section you mention that and list out your credentials. Until then everything else is opinion.

    • Psionicinversion

      lmao, im a PC gamer and the only game i want off xbox is FH2 because the Crew is extremely poor so dont know how that translates into a MS employee hahah.

      Although i wish i was cus id prolly earn a lot more than you

    • Reddz Foxx

      You said “did you completely miss the part where i said DX12 will have no impact on consoles or something?”
      I said”I missed the part where you said you were a Microsoft employee. Please
      refer me to the section you mention that and list out your credentials.
      Until then everything else is opinion.”

      You said”Although i wish i was cus id prolly earn a lot more than you”

      My retort : You are trying to hard bro.

    • DarthDiggler

      @reddzfoxx:disqus

      IMHO you are not trying hard enough, because you making rash assumptions about technology you do not understand. You will find out when they release DX12 for XBONE it won’t be a game changer. It will make improvements but it won’t suddenly change the XBONE’s fortunes.

    • Reddz Foxx

      I said”The TLDR version. PC API is going to be on par with console in terms of
      overall efficiency. It is unknown and unproven DX12 will offer any
      substantial performance benefits for consoles.”

      I think this is the second time you forgot to read a post and just started running your mouth.

    • DarthDiggler

      @reddzfoxx:disqus

      My retort : You are trying to hard bro.

      You are on a roll today bro. Again my comment was completely germane to your comment. If you going to spam the comment areas you can’t pick and choose what you think I responded to in the attempt to make me look stupid.

    • Reddz Foxx

      What part of “It is unknown and unproven DX12 will offer any substantial performance benefits for consoles.” do you take as it being my rash assumptions about technology I do not understand?

      Its a fact MS has told us nothing about the features DX12 will bring to the Xbox One. They have shown nothing of what to expect in the future. The only information we have are from websites asking indie developers what they think of DX12.

    • DarthDiggler

      @reddzfoxx:disqus

      You don’t need to be an MS Employee to recognize that the XBONE is already very low level no BS kind of system. DX12 will make great gains on the PC, which is filled with high level abstraction and contains many systems not germane to gaming at all, which rob your system of resources.

      XBONE has the resources in check, you won’t find any Fax Drivers loaded in the XBONE OS.

      Because of this DX12 will have a limited affect on XBONE. You should temper your expectations.

    • Reddz Foxx

      I said “The TLDR version. PC API is going to be on par with console in terms of
      overall efficiency. It is unknown and unproven DX12 will offer any
      substantial performance benefits for consoles.”

      I think you should learn to read versus telling me to temper my expectations.

    • DarthDiggler

      @reddzfoxx:disqus

      I missed the part where you said you were a Microsoft employee. Please refer me to the section you mention that and list out your credentials. Until then everything else is opinion.

      I think my response was 100% appropriate. Maybe you should remember what you wrote before telling people to read. Jerk.

    • Reddz Foxx

      I created a TLDR version of the previous posters comments and kept what was known factual information. There is 0 facts that tell us anything about DX12 for consoles. The clues for PC have been repeated a lot from other sources . PsionicInversion is just a random poster spewing what ever he wants on the comments section and its his OPINION on the information he claims to be right. But since he is not a MS employee nor has he seen nor worked with any version of DX12 I will not consider him an experienced user nor having any real knowledge about DX12.

      I don’t like that people talk about topics without any knowledge of the projects in development. Its okay to speculate but to pretend like they are facts when we know nothing about the API is simply misinformation.

      So hence I told you to read my comments before assuming that I am presenting my opinion when I am pointing out the fact “It is unknown and unproven DX12 will offer any substantial performance benefits for consoles.”

      I can read what I wrote and it appears you lack the ability to follow the conversations on this comments hence the reason I am having to post this comment here.

    • Michael Norris

      What this will do is make Pc gamers buy lower end graphics card to meet their gaming goals.I am looking forward for the upgrade on Pc.I don’t see it being much of an upgrade for Xone due to the fact that the Api used for it is already the same as DX12.

    • kstuffs

      Phil Spencer is being humbled by under-promise. Anything he says right now will be held for review later when DX12 is released, so it’s best to under-promise. Just look at the interview of Metro Redux dev.

      http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-metro-redux-what-its-really-like-to-make-a-multi-platform-game

      “Digital Foundry: DirectX 11 vs GNMX vs GNM – what’s your take on the strengths and weakness of the APIs available to developers with Xbox One and PlayStation 4? Closer to launch there were some complaints about XO driver performance and CPU overhead on GNMX.

      Oles Shishkovstov: Let’s put it that way – we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that’s surely on the ‘mono’ driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

      In general – I don’t really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It’s a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let’s say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

      But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available – although we didn’t ship with it on Redux due to time constraints.”

      And then he further explained how important DX12 is:

      “Oles Shishkovstov: Aside from them being much more close to the (modern) metal, those APIs are a paradigm-shift in API design. DX11 was ‘I will keep track of everything for you’. DX12 says ‘now it’s your responsibility’ – so it could be a much thinner layer. As for Mantle, it is a temporary API, in my honest opinion.

      Digital Foundry: To what extent will DX12 prove useful on Xbox One? Isn’t there already a low CPU overhead there in addressing the GPU?

      Oles Shishkovstov: No, it’s important. All the dependency tracking takes a huge slice of CPU power. And if we are talking about the multi-threaded command buffer chunks generation – the DX11 model was essentially a ‘flop’, while DX12 should be the right one.”

      Should I take your words or someone who actually developed and released Metro Redux for both PS4 and XB1?

    • Psionicinversion

      hmm possibly good then, i know DX11 is old out of date API. Thing is though how does it really translate into real world performance though, thats the main thing. I spose under promising is better than over promising but just have to see how it goes

    • DarthDiggler

      @kstuffs:disqus

      I didn’t have time to read all of that but DX12 is not poised to make huge improvements on the Xbox One. Its not like all those sub-1080p / 60fps games will all of a sudden be 1080p / 60fps when DX12 comes to XBONE. It will improve the system, but it won’t be night and day.

    • JerkDaNERD7

      That’s the mistake most of you make. It’s not about sheer hardware power to push further resolution or frame rates. It’s allowing developers more powerful design applications for a more streamlined game design. On top of that certain technologies that will increase overall immersion in games.

      But if anything this will be a HUGE benefit for PCs, and finally. PCs game development has relied too much on hardware, now it’ll be using a console optimized API to use every bit of power of those top tier GPUs.

    • DarthDiggler

      @jerkdanerd7:disqus

      It’s allowing developers more powerful design applications for a more streamlined game design

      That statement is so obtuse you could apply it to any given update for Xbox or PlayStation. Got any more lines you want to read off the back of the Direct X 12 box?

      Next you will tell me it will improve stability for XBONE software. 🙂

    • Guest

      You really didn’t understand what you just read did you? He’s saying that DX (any DX) is a stupid idea for the consoles. And he even uses an example that paints the picture perfectly by saying how you couldn’t even see the same draw calls on the PS4 on their profilers will on the X1 it took up an entire core because of DX (and that includes DX12, cuz 7.5 times better is nothing when DX11 draw calls capabilities are so bad when compared to PS4 true cxonsole API. You’re obviously a fanboy who wants to believe some other nonsense. But he’s telling you.

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      There is something to be said for a developing to a single spec. For one thing that single spec will be dug into much longer than any given piece of hardware in the PC Realm. PC developers have to program to a target audience. Make your game too ambitious and you have fewer people who can actually play it. Also due to the single spec the GPU in my PS4 will likely receive more low level attention than any GPU that comes to Intel based computers. Which is why games start to look better over the life of a console, developers actually code for the hardware instead of a target range.

      Consoles have a few advantages that aren’t just based in the hardware.

      IMHO one of the things that makes consoles attractive is the form factor. It goes into your living room and almost everyone who owns one is using a controller just like you. Sure its not as accurate as a mouse, but it is far more comfortable to game on your couch.

      Consoles are pretty turn key, you boot them up and your games are there. No Windows to fuss with. Sure there are solutions that replicate this for the computers, but few are as elegant as what PlayStation and Xbox do for their audiences.

      Overall there are far fewer cheaters / hackers on the PlayStation and Xbox. Which results in multiplayer that has more integrity. People who cheat / hack on these closed networks are generally easier to identify (but not always).

      When you buy a console you are pretty much done with hardware purchases for 5-8 years. Which means you can put more of your money towards the games. Granted PCs generally have a $10 discount vs consoles, but the PC gamer will be shelling out $300 for a GPU long before I shell out $300-$500 for a new console.

      One of the big things that makes consoles attractive to me (as well as many of my friends): it’s not a computer. Unless you are in a trade or blue collar position you are likely using a computer all day. The last thing I want to do when I get home is use a computer. 🙂

      Let me make this clear, I won’t deny that if money is no object that PC Gaming is one of the penultimate gaming experiences in terms of graphics and general capabilities. I just don’t see how that diminishes what consoles are at all. It’s great to live in a world where we have options for people of various needs.

    • Psionicinversion

      yeah i completely understand why console gaming is good for alot of people. It just works, and they can dig in the hardware and make it look better over the gen etc but i really dont think thats going to be the case this generation in all honesty. Looking at tech available at the time compared to when consoles launched this gen is by far the weakest. Its severely underpowered right from the start. Unlike previous gens when it took a while for alot of devs to get to grips with the new architecture etc that isnt the case this gen.

      Its straight up x86-64, no cell, no power pc just pure x86 which has bin around for a very very long time. In fact the first things most of these devs will of programmed for at university or wherever they learned it will be x86.

      The gfx will improve but i see alot of people think its going to have the leap the ps3 did. im sorry but its not

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      I am not sure if I believe you when you start the conversation with…

      death of the consoles starts here

      they can dig in the hardware and make it look better over the gen etc but i really dont think thats going to be the case this generation in all honesty.

      You base this on what? A gut feeling? If these consoles stick around for 5+ years they games that come out on the 5th year will generally look better than the 1st year games. The hardware doesn’t change, but the code gets better.

      Its straight up x86-64, no cell, no power pc just pure x86 which has bin around for a very very long time

      It’s not straight up x86, it’s x86 based. For example the motherboard design of the PS4 resembles a graphics card more than a PC Motherboard. It’s not like we could just load Windows on the PS4 or XBONE and call it a day.

      Granted given the use of AMD x86 CPUs these new consoles have more in common with PCs then they have had previously. But similar is not equal to the same.

      The gfx will improve but i see alot of people think its going to have the leap the ps3 did. im sorry but its not

      Well that isn’t a fair comparison. The PS3 did not have a working API when it was released and it took 2 years to get a tool set in place tat developers could use to make their games look like they were being played on the PS3 and not the PS2. A handful of those early PS3 games were pretty God awful.

      I am confident via experience and innovation that PS4 developers in the future will be able to milk more out of the system.

    • Psionicinversion

      x86 = the instruction sets, GCN = the architecture of the GPU its the same, sure the memory subsystem is different but PS4 is not HSA, its hUMA just a unfied memory, alot more simple. You say the PS3 didnt have the toolsets in place at the time that true

      This gen they have right from the start which means there getting alot of performance instantly. so performance increases will be less.

      Oh AMD’s HSA/hUMA etc is controlled by the drivers and the chips itself, yeah not by the OS so good luck with that!!!

    • DarthDiggler

      @Psionicinversion

      x86 = the instruction sets, GCN = the architecture of the GPU its the same, sure the memory subsystem is different

      AKA it is an entirely different design which uses similar CPU/GPU. You aren’t going to port code from the PC to PS4 or XBONE and expect it to run with no optimizations. Unless it’s just your typical “Hello World” application. 🙂

      BTW try putting that Macintosh based program on your PC. They both Intel x86 right? 🙂

      You say the PS3 didnt have the toolsets in place at the time that true

      This gen they have right from the start which means there getting alot of performance instantly. so performance increases will be less.

      Dude I know what I said, you don’t need to repeat it. 🙂

      Having the API at the start does put them well ahead of the game from last generation, but that won’t stop developers from coming up with tricks to breathe new features into the old hardware. The early PS3 games were an example of developers just not putting tons of effort into the PS3 due to the steep learning curve of developing for it. Putting the API in place on PS3 was just the first step to elevating quality, team ICE had routinely worked on the API and added new features to it along the way. Most of the innovations made to that API took place late in the console life cycle.

      I am just saying there really isn’t much preventing history from repeating itself. Your first party devs and some of your third party devs are going to discover programming innovations on each platform that will result in a higher degree of quality for games coming out after that innovation. Its in inevitable, DUE TO THE SINGLE SPEC. You can’t dig into hardware as much with a target spec. It just doesn’t make financial sense to do so.

      Why would you bother replicating a feature with software when you can just target a video card that has those features built into the hardware?

    • Psionicinversion

      no its not an entirely dfifferent design actaully the small anount of cache isnt exactly great for an APU… BUT things can be optimised but i dont the bandwidth is enough. The single spec nature as you point out allows for much better optimisation BUT when your working with incredibly weak hardwar its not just the GPU its the CPU to how far do you think its going to carry??

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      Don’t forget this too.

      John Carmack

      @Deepo Consoles run 2x or so better than equal PC hardware, but it isn’t just API in the way, focus a single spec also matters.

      SOURCE: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statuses/50277106856370176

      Mantle / DX12 does close the gap some. Overall the consoles are still more efficient in terms of low-level code.

    • Psionicinversion

      hmmm so thats why a 6 core AMD, 8 GB ram and 750Ti beats the ps4?? doesnt look like it

    • Psionicinversion

      Actually Carmack said equal PC hardware NOT price, so that HAS to be a 8 core CPU (8350 @4Ghz), 7870 GPU which atm is a 270x (2.5+TFLOP) and 8GB ram.

      Now you go and compare the benchamrks in game of that and it will destroy, tbh even the GPU on its own far outperforms the PS4’s GPU, games run better and far stable and thats a fact

    • TheWayItsMeantToBePlayed

      2011 tweet. It’s basically just console fanboys desperately trying to cling onto anything that will justify their purchase.

    • Psionicinversion

      yup

    • Psionicinversion

      tbh i coudl make some mdf and put the PC part on that for extreme air cooling ie.e. no case, but pountless

    • WhiteSkyMage

      They think they are getting something which they will get within 20 years time (2more xboxes) and we will get it with one GPU upgrade 😀

    • TheWayItsMeantToBePlayed

      That was made in 2011 in reference to the current console generation at the time which used different coding architectures (PS3 using CELL. 360 using PowerPC)

      Since all two of the newer generations consoles are on x86 PC architecture. The point is moot. There won’t be 2x performance.

    • D S

      The main advantage of the console is it’s price. Nothing more nothing less. Unless PC makers start shelling out pcs with 400 price points that can match consoles graphically then they will still exist.

      As far as your assumption that DX12 will NOT benefit Xbox 1, get a clue. It is known that DX 11.2 is a resource hog and removing that crappy API and replacing it with a better one will have an instant affect, period. It’s not just a matter of the console already having low level access its a matter of how the api is not efficient.

    • Psionicinversion

      it will make it more efficient as far as any real world performance gains maybe pretty small.

    • 54nakaD

      MS execs have already come forward and said not to expect that much of a difference with dx12.

    • Satsumo

      Yeah you guys keep believing that – for once MS have made sure to under-sell something – but you are now taking it as gospel (whereas if they said it would be amazing you would all say they were lying).
      So you expect DX12 to make a massive difference on PC but not on X1 (which is also a PC). You X1 bashers crack me up.
      To be honest I don’t really care – my X1 is amazing and I’m enjoying all the awesome games on it. I’m currently struggling for time – not games.

    • 54nakaD

      Xbox is a low end outdated PC. It won’t do much. There are many more uses for it with a an updated PC. It’s like trying to turn a light switch for a candle with xbox.

    • Satsumo

      LOL – you should be a comedian.
      I have a £2k PC built 6 months ago – I still prefer the X1 for gaming. BF4 at 4K Ultra on PC looks the same as on X1.
      Probably if I captured the images and compared them I’d notice the difference, but guess what, I don’t do that while gaming!
      I have a PC and X1 – I am speaking from experience, you on the other hand, I suspect, are speaking from ignorance.
      Or are you trying to tell yourself that all the money you spend on keeping a PC up to date is worth it and it makes you a member of some sort of master race??

    • 54nakaD

      I call BS. Because nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, looks as good on x1 as it does on PC on Ultra settings. I realize now you don’t have a gsming rig, at least not one from this decade. That statement alone makes the rest of your argument redundant.

    • Mark

      Like how Phil said expect a jump from Perfect Dark Zero to Halo 4, with DX12 based games on the X1? Good enough for me.

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      Sure you didn’t mean intelligence?

  • That is an insane improvement. 7.5x on PC?! How much greater is it on XB1?

    • Psionicinversion

      its the amount of draw calls where PC dx11 handles mostly between 3000-5,000 but can go up about 10k, consoles generally do about 25,000-30,000 if i remember correctly. bin a while since i saw an article on it

    • Thanks for the info!

    • Psionicinversion

      Thats PC for ya bogged down with legacy hardware and generalised hardware paths not really taking advantage on modern GPU and CPU’s. DX12/ Mantle changes that so performance goes uupppp 😀

    • DarthDiggler

      @psionicinversion:disqus

      To be technical DX12 doesn’t change that it just aligns the resources in a much more efficient matter. The hardware is what it is.

    • Psionicinversion

      yeah but it still applies the core mem is the same as consoles its jsut alot more efficient. i think at most iot will result in alot more stable framerates

    • Psionicinversion

      kind of answered your own question

    • Guest

      Here is what 4A Games’ chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstov (Metro Redux)
      has said about the two systems draw calls capabilities.

      “Oles Shishkovstov: Let’s put it that way – we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that’s surely on the ‘mono’ driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

      In general – I don’t really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It’s a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let’s say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

      But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available”
      In other words the PS4s API is much much better at handling draw calls, so it should still be a lot better than DX12 on the X1.

  • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

    So how high on the 3D Mark scale would the specs of a gaming PC need to be to get a satisfying quality experience since I’m trying to decide what laptop that I want for Black Friday?

    • Psionicinversion

      depends what you want play tbh

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Although I plan to play indie games and older games like System Shock 2, Half Life, and Deus Ex, I also plan to play recent more modern games like Assassin’s Creed 2, Star Citizen, and PC exclusives or games that run intensely on PC’s. Be good if I found a computer that runs medium-high, as my budget is $1,000-1200. My family tends to move around a lot so don’t wanna get desktop til I settle somewhere I know I’ll be for more than a year and know my rig won’t need to be packed and unpacked and stuff.

    • Psionicinversion

      hmmm SC, well if you got a laptop that can run SC at medium high then youll be set for the other games hahaha. Hmm im not sure you should go ask in SC’s hardware forum there always helpful, just say your looking for a laptop budget is $1000-1200 hoping for a black friday deal and youll get lots of help. To much probably haha but yeah there pretty good. If you can get like a 970m for that price youll be set, or even a 770m will do i think.or 870m forgot about those

      Try asking :d

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      I’ll see where I can go from there. thanks for the info.

    • Psionicinversion

      im in UK so not sure where to look in US but dont buy a dell or anything try see a proper gaming website where they do laptops thats your best bet

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Ok will do

    • Psionicinversion

      ooo found something that would do quite well i think get something like that, it should hold up quite well.

      http://www.amazon.com/MSI-GT60-Dominator-424-9S7-16F442-424-15-6-Inch/dp/B00IMTQ5G4/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1416596757&sr=8-20&keywords=msi

      it might be worth finding one with a 17inch screen, atm you can get away with an i5 in there, so maybe find an i5 17inch version of that

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Yeah having some trouble finding good ones at 17″. Many people favor 15.6 “for some reason. I’ll check it out.

    • Psionicinversion

      maybe 15.6 is ok i dunno tbh never owned a laptop just always though bigger is better, hahah, if your planning on getting a PC when your settled in then its probably more than fine then

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Haha yeah last desktop I ever owned was a Dell CRT model. That was almost 7 years ago. Been with laptops since then. Yeah I think I’ll just have the laptop for now as a temporary solution and once I get desktop I’ll spend most of my gaming on it but keep the laptop as a back up just in case. I’ll be the luckiest gamer alive once I finally play Half Life. Wish Valve would hurry up 🙁

    • Psionicinversion

      is there a new half life coming out?

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Supposedly Valve has been on top of it for years, and it’s in bits and pieces so nothing can be shown or be playable. They won’t talk about it. Be sweet if it were the big surprise that’s gonna set fans in a race ar Playstation Experience or even be at The Fake Awards 2014. The day it’s revealed will be when I reached nirvana.

    • Psionicinversion

      hmmm just found this with the 870m

      http://www.futuremark.com/hardware/gpu/NVIDIA+GeForce+GTX+870M/review

      does better than the 760 though and the 3GB ram will help. hmmmbenchmarks are a bit wavey fore xmaple

      http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/msi-gt60-2pc-dominator-laptop,review-32975-8.html

      i think the laptop should defo do SC at medium at least considering its fairly unoptimised, problem is decent gaming laptops cost quite a bit. Maybe $100’s more for better framerates but seeing as its temporary i think you can live with it.

      Hope Half life doesnt end up like Duke Nukem Forever, took so long to develop and wasnt the best at the end

      i have a 280x and get 40 ish fps at very high so ithink medium or high settings will be ok for that in SC

    • DarthDiggler

      @nintendofan4lif3:disqus

      Have you considered a Small Form Factor PC? It’s not nearly as upgradable as a full rig, but would offer you a PCIE slot for GPU upgrades which would extend the life of the system greatly.

      You can get pretty small boxes these days and a decent monitor and have a fairly portable setup that wouldn’t compromise upgradability for portability. Some of them are about the size of a toaster with a handle and you can even get a bag to carry the system and the monitor. It won’t travel with you on vacation, but it will pack nicely for routine moves.

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      No I haven’t looked into that but now that you mention it I ought to. Yeah for now I’ll do laptop and save the former for the future.

    • DarthDiggler

      How is the build quality on MSI? Historically they were decent hardware, but build quality wasn’t anything stellar.

    • Psionicinversion

      actually ive bin told by Overclockers MSI use the better ram i.e. Hynix but overall laptop build im not sure

    • DarthDiggler

      @nintendofan4lif3:disqus

      IMHO if that is how you are shopping for your PC you are doing it wrong. If you want to get a PC for gaming experience why not select a game that interest you and do research on how you can get the best bang for your buck in terms of performance.

      If buying a gaming PC, but don’t have a game in mind you may not get the performance you want. Or you may pay too much for a system that only makes the games you want marginally better.

      EDIT – Should have scrolled down more. 🙂

      But to make a point I have had friends that want a new PC just to kind of have a new PC and I remind them if they don’t buy the PC with a purpose then they may end up paying for an expensive web browser. If you really jazzed for a game on PC do you research around what other people have done to their systems in order to achieve a certain performance benchmark.

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Yes but I want to be able to play a range of titles and not come to a halt because I don’t have this software or my drivers aren’t the latest version etc. I plan to have a catalog of both old and new games. But yes I see what you’re saying. Don’t worry when I get a gaming laptop I’ll put it to great use. Yeah I’ll do that. I don’t plan to do desktop until I know I’ll be settled in a house more than a year and not move around so much, with myself moving out sometime by summer as it is. Once I’m settled I’ll beef it up and play it in all its glory. Gaming would be much more affordable if all we had was a joint system made by Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft and then a great PC. Why can’t we have nice things? Also my dad was never very forward thinking with adopting new technology so I was never owning the latest stuff, as I mentioned in an earlier post where I had a Dell CRT until 2008. Probably also why we always got Nintendo and never anything else now that I think about it. But Star Citizen really does excite me though.

    • Psionicinversion

      hey the Star Citizen excitement isnt just you… it has all the console goers scared, scared that it will prove that there boxes arent upto anything. Take your time im building my next PC in 1.5-2years time when all the proper next gen PC tech comes out. its going to be glorious and expensive but SC i feel is one of those games that deserves it 😀

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Yeah I won’t do desktop right away. I’ll still play on console while doing PC I want the best of both worlds. Yeah it will be worth it.

    • Psionicinversion

      my next PC is goign to turn the head of medusa herself, either intel or AMD ZEN (pend how it performs) 8 core, 16-32GB RAM 128-250GB system SSD, 1-2TB SSD game drive, 2x Pascal or AMD equiv GPU;s and 1 4K monitor… also wil have SC custom HOTAS and a Ocu,lus rift if seem good. Lot of money money itllbe worth it

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Sounds like an awesome rig. Didn’t realize they offer drives over 100 TB. Only seen computers with 1 or 2 TB at the store. Really want Oculus Rift, VR is gonna open up gaming so much. So should I invest in HDD or SSD, because one’s less expensive but then the other is more efficient? And is there anything above octo core atm or no?

    • Psionicinversion

      it all depends how muh cyou want spendm ill be moving to 1-2TB SSD;s in 1.5-2 years atm far to expensive for what there worthh

    • Psionicinversion

      the CPU’s above 8 core intels (16 threads) are Xeons and Opterons (server processors) but there very expensive. there arent drives over 100TB maybe i made a typo. theres like 4 or 5 TB HD’s out now, ive got 2x 3TB in mine atm

      An SSD is very good for you operating system, youll notice it instantly. SSD doesnt really help gaming that much tbh but i think SC is a game that will benefit from an SSD so get a 120-250GB SSD and get a 1 or 2TB drive for gaming when you get a PC

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Oh ok. Yeah I’ll make sure I do.

    • Psionicinversion

      also wait till arkham knight and witcher 3 cxomes out, that will defo put the consoles in there place lmao

    • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

      Haha yeah those games are gonna turn heads

  • misterxmedia.lj.com

    Xbox is the only hardware I need for the next 7 years until next Xbox.
    Gfx will be on pair with PC all the time. Thanks to consoles optimizations and DX12. PC gamers waste ton of money buying silicon that is never maxes out. PR sheeps.

    • Psionicinversion

      i was goingto say alot until i saw your name misterxmedia. becuase the X1 will magically increase by 5x in power and bandwidthlol go sleep

    • Guest

      Wow, fanboys are to much.

  • GHz

    Well all I have to say is, if QB is what’s possible pre DX12, then I cant wait to see how games on the XB1 will look like when all of its features are finally turned on.

    http://vimeo.com/109943521

  • Failz

    Awesome, so now my 2k gaming rig and my XB1 will benefit once this DX12 is released. Looking forward to the future.

  • MuscledRMH

    So DX12 will benefit the Xbox One a lot after all?

    • Guest

      No, cuz what they aint telling you is how the PS4’s API could do way more draw calls than the X1 and its not some monster powerhouse is it? And MS has already bettered their draw call performance since their updated SDK. PS4’s API is like Mantle but better for the PS4. Also the main way you get better performance on DX12 over DX11, is by having the devs do certain routines themselves. Thereby, optimizing it to their liking. Smaller studios wont like that. DX12 is mainlu marketing propaganda but fanboys eat the s h*t up.

  • Mark

    Oohh, can’t wait to read this. Future of Compute. Thx Rashid

    http://www.amd.com/en-us/markets/future-of-compute-malaysia

  • Guest

    Here is what 4A Games’ chief technical officer Oles Shishkovstov (Metro Redux)
    has said about the two systems draw calls capabilities.

    “Oles Shishkovstov: Let’s put it that way – we have seen scenarios where a single CPU core was fully loaded just by issuing draw-calls on Xbox One (and that’s surely on the ‘mono’ driver with several fast-path calls utilised). Then, the same scenario on PS4, it was actually difficult to find those draw-calls in the profile graphs, because they are using almost no time and are barely visible as a result.

    In general – I don’t really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console. It’s a console! Why care about some legacy stuff at all? On PS4, most GPU commands are just a few DWORDs written into the command buffer, let’s say just a few CPU clock cycles. On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

    But Microsoft is not sleeping, really. Each XDK that has been released both before and after the Xbox One launch has brought faster and faster draw-calls to the table. They added tons of features just to work around limitations of the DX11 API model. They even made a DX12/GNM style do-it-yourself API available”

    So in other words, way better draw call performance on the PS4 right now. So even with DX12, it wont be as good as PS4’s API now.

    • GHz

      Your reading comprehension sux. Ole simply told us that the problems XB1 face is due to how bloated and inefficient DX11 is in comparison to PS4 API. But yet still, the game in question was near parity.

      He said, ” In general – I don’t really get why they choose DX11 as a starting point for the console.”

      And the most amazing thing he shared was that On Xbox One it easily could be one million times slower because of all the bookkeeping the API does.

      One million times slower because of DX11, but you still need a pixel counter to tell you the difference between Metro 2033 on the PS4 and XB1. 40 per cent resolution boost in favour of the Sony platform manifests as a slightly clearer image, and that only when you’re eyeballing, pausing, and showing still shots of the game.

      He also said, “We may push 40 per cent more pixels per frame on PS4, but it’s not 40 per cent better as a result… your own eyes can tell you that.” And he’s right.

      At this point we should all be asking, “how powerful is the PS4 when we have a console like XB1 running a bloated API producing 3rd party games at near parity?” In that current environment Oles insisted that the PS4 is just a BIT more powerful when comparing 3rd party multiplats. How? I mean it should be a whole LOT MORE powerful if thats the case right? Why is it only a little bit, when its common knowledge that the XB1 is handicapped because of its current API. Is Oles trying to tell us something?

      This is what happens when you develop games specifically for XB1, which is powered by the “legacy” heavy DX11.

      And how is Quantum Break even possible? Thats two games that are leagues ahead of the competition in their respected genre fx wise and in scale. Your ending statement is bogus because you couldn’t even understand where Ole was coming from, and ultimately suggestion.

      http://vimeo.com/109943521

  • Guest

    To all the dumb bots that think that DX12 is some wonderful thing. All it and Mantle will do is make consoles look even weaker. Cuz consoles have already and have always used low access “to the metal” API’s/coding and now their only advantage will be gone and PC will crush them.

  • WhiteSkyMage

    When DX12 gets released it will be a heaven for the ACU fans. It will look awesome on 1440p 60FPS with a GTX980. Xbox and PS4 – you get lost in the 900p :P. Ubisoft should have ported that game to OpenGL and left Microsoft to swim in the river, whcih will be better as OpenGL can do more draw calls than DX11.


 

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