Sony Going With Checkerboard Upscaling on PS4 Pro Is A Little ‘Disappointing,’ Says Artomatix CTO

“I’m a little disappointed that Sony would go with something simple and outdated like the Checkerboard approach,” says Eric Risser, the CTO of Artomatix.

Posted By | On 05th, Feb. 2017 Under News | Follow This Author @Pramath1605


The PS4 Pro is not powerful enough to render most games in 4K natively– but ultimately, that’s besides the point, since Sony and other third party developers uses a rather clever upscaling technique, known as Checkerboard Rendering, to upscale most games into 4K resolutions anyway. It’s the kind of workaround that lets customers get functionally similar results at far cheaper prices that a true 4K machine would entail.

But what do developers think of the PS4 Pro, and of Sony’s workaround? GamingBolt recently had a chance to sit down for a chat with Eric Risser, the CTO of Artomatix, a company known for delivering cost effective solutions to render high fidelity 3D worlds, texture creation suite along with various tools for game and entertainment companies. In response to our question about the PS4 Pro and checkerboard rendering, Risser largely sounded impressed, though he did express disappointment with Sony going with something as simplistic as they did.

“The Checkerboard technique shouldn’t be too much trouble to program as it’s just a simple post-process,” he said. “They essentially just render half the pixels in a checkerboard pattern and then fill in the blank pixels by blurring together the rendered pixels. People have been doing tricks like this for decades. As for how it will stack up against true 4k rendering. I honestly can’t say without looking at a few games being played side by side. Obviously the quality won’t be as good, the question is if it will be noticeably bad.

“As an expert on the topic of “upscaling” or hallucinating enhanced details from low resolution images, I’m a little disappointed that Sony would go with something simple and outdated like the Checkerboard approach. I wish they’d worked with a company like Artomatix which has expertise on this topic. We’ve been developing upscaling technology utilizing neural networks which is years ahead of the traditional methods.”

Checkerboard rendering has been using in various PS4 titles that have been patched with PS4 Pro support. Our own analysis across a number of games indicate that although checkerboard rendering does a decent job of providing an excellent image quality, but it’s still not close to the quality provided by a native 4K buffer.

In the end, I suppose it comes down to the simple fact that, while Sony could theoretically have done better than they did, the solution they developed appears to have been more than sufficient for the mass market that they were so obviously targeting.

Stay tuned for our full interview with Eric in the coming days.

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  • Terminator

    Sony rushed the Pro out of the gate just to have an answer to the Xbox Scoprio and they f*cked that up. Nioh at 720p? LOL

    • FinalFantasyXNemesis

      sony made the ps4 pro before microsoft announced scorpio
      ps4 pro costs the same as the ps4 at launch so it wasnt rushed
      you are dumb and desperate

    • LifeOnMars

      Scorpio does not exist yet, it’s 10 months away. Xbox one has had no answer to the Std PS4 for the last three years. Let’s just hope that in those 10 months they get some AAA exclusive games ready.

    • Still PlayStation has bigger number of first party games and exculsive !

    • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

      Yes, funny as Xbox fans still have 2 praise their own budget tv media GPU 720p-900p as more than enough for yet another 10 months,…..
      yet make fun of 1800p to 2160p checkerboard up-scaled Horizon Zero Dawn. Which no xbox game can even match.

    • Eddie Battikha

      Yup Xbots are stuck in denial.

    • Josh

      More 2017 games on Xbox then Ps, all you guys have is horizon but what else

    • Bilal Prince-Ali

      you sound desperate lool

    • Josh

      Truth hurts

    • Bilal Prince-Ali

      really.. that’s all you have… “truth hurts” loool ahaha

    • Aenea

      1) Nioh isn’t running at 720p, especially not on the Pro
      2) no on really knows if Scorpio was an answer to the Pro or the other way around, considering when the first rumours started and release dates of the consoles I can take a guess which of the 2 seems more likely
      3) Scorpio is going to use “sparse rendering” which is just another name for checkerboard rendering

    • Dougdec92

      Nioh at 720p is an option when playing at 60fps solid…pls read the article on that again.

    • justerthought

      The Pro was not rushed out of the gate in response to the Scorpio. These things take lots of careful planning. The timelines for both consoles are determined by AMD who produce the chips that make the stuff possible.

      AMD offered the new chips to both companies who are their clients. The choice was either use this years new chips for extra performance at a low cost, or wait a year and use next years chips which will be more powerful but at a higher cost.

      Sony chose this years chips at a low price because they knew they could maximise them by using smart upscale tech and offer great value for money a year early to steal all the sales. MS chose next years chips because they desperately wanted to have the higher resolution as revenge over the 900p vs1080p saga.

      When you look at it like that, you realise that it’s actually MS who are reactionary, while Sony are aggressively pushing forward with clever innovation and winning all the sales.

    • Gamez Rule

      Nioh at 720p? Here are the facts.

      ” After pixel counting a huge number of shots, we came across a wide resolution variation in each mode.

      While using the action mode, Nioh presents resolutions including a full 1080p, 1728×972, 1665×940, 1472×828 and even 1280×720 in rare instances.

      In comparison, the movie mode sees a variation in resolution ranging from 2160p to 1800p down to 1440p.

      The variable movie mode even exhibits drops to 2304×1296 at points. This option also enables slightly higher resolution shadow maps, while the increased pixel count helps enhance texture filtering.”

      1280 x 720 resolution in rare cases while choosing the *action mode* is better than having nothing at all☺

    • Terminator

      Here are the facts…game does run at 720p, on the Pro of all the consoles LOL. Thanks for proving what I said was true.

    • Aenea

      When a game occasionally drops to 720p does not equal that it’s running in 720p.

      Otherwise it would mean many a game on the Xbox One is running in a way lower resolution…

      Besides, this is at 60fps, at 30fps it doesn’t go below 1296p…

      So no, you’re not right at all.

      PS. You will be so gosh darn disappointed in the Scorpio!

    • Gamez Rule

      Nope! You are not correct as occasionally the game ( on that one option out of three choices ) drops to 720p which does not mean the game itself is running at that resolution all the time OR set at that resolution as it only happens in *rare instances* while choosing ( Action Mode at 60fps )

      IF Movie mode or variable mode are to be selected on the PS4-Pro that variation in resolution doesn’t happen and stays above x1440 / x1296 resolution at 30fps.

    • Terminator

      I am correct and you keep proving it by admitting that it does run at 720p. Doest matter how it’s getting there it got there. The oh so laughable resolution you Drones said PS4 would never run and now even the all supposed powerful PS4 Pro runs at that resolution too.

    • Gamez Rule

      If I selected Movie Mode it is not falling below 1440p so no you are not correct.

    • Terminator

      Your damage control is noted. Fact Nioh drops to 720 deal with it.

    • Gamez Rule

      Not on movie modes☺

    • Terminator

      Fact Nioh drops to 720p, doesn’t matter if its on movie mode your excuse doesn’t invalidate that fact. Nice try.

    • Gamez Rule

      Fact the movie mode doesn’t drop to 720p as movie mode sees a variation in resolution ranging from 2160p down to 1440p, So yes it does matter when playing the game on movie mode as when on that selection Nioh doesn’t drop below 1440p.

    • Terminator

      “Nioh only occasionally drops to 720p”

      That’s all I needed to read everything else is you damage controlling. Thanks for trying.

    • Bad wolf

      Sony Drones and their excuses LOL

    • Eddie Battikha

      Nice try Rookie Blue, PS4 Pro, 4K display. Option 1: “Movie Mode” Stable 3840×2160 resolution at 30fps.

    • Tomaterrrx

      Thought MS fanboys said resolution means nothing. Now they say a graphic intensive game like NiOh running a lot of the at 720p is terrible?

    • Terminator

      You people are so slow you cant even connect the dots.
      “Thought MS fanboys said resolution means nothing” I guess they did so it doesn’t matter if it runs at a higher resolution either 🙂

      “Now they say a graphic intensive game like NiOh running a lot of the at 720p is terrible”
      The ones who said 720p was terrible where PS Drone fanboys, we are just reminding them of their own words and what a bunch of hypocrites they are 🙂 So the PS4 and especially the Pro both at times run this game at 720p the resolution said that would never be on the PS4.

    • Tomaterrrx

      If it doesn’t matter than why are you smashing the PS4 about NiOh.
      Sony fanboys are hypocrites, but you’re only going down to their low level by clearly writing a comment that will trigger a load of Sony fanboys.

  • Direct-XbotMK1 Elite

    You can’t do native 4K in every modern game for $399.

    And why are people confusing “upscaling” with “checkerboard rendering”? Upscaling to 4K with a cheap scaler chip doesn’t do the same thing as checkerboard rendering to 4K with a GPU. Checkerboard rendering is part of rendering. It uses resources or data during rendering to improve detail. Upscaling with a scaler chip doesn’t.

    • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

      The price performance balance Sony have got right.

      Micosoft is going to either going to just hold the high price, or take a massive loss to match the up-coming Pro price drops, as Sony wil make sure the Scorpio has Zero impact on the generation.

  • Bilal Prince-Ali

    so will this same opinion exist when the Scoprio drops..? considering Microsoft themselves are suggesting to 3rd party developers that they should use this same technique…!?

    • Aenea

      Yup, they should, but am sure that’s not gonna happen…

    • Bilal Prince-Ali

      which is something i hate about blind fanboy support

    • Yes, if MS decides not use their tools.

    • Bad wolf

      They are not forced Microsoft give them options.

    • Aenea

      Yeah, same as on Pro, Sony is giving them options as well…

      If your game is too graphically intense native 4k is not feasible on either so they have to either render in a lower resolution and upscale or use checkerboard/sparse rendering…

      Same damn option!

    • Bilal Prince-Ali

      did i say they were forced…? or did i simply say Microsoft are advising it be used…? You must not know how 3rd party development works lool so imma just let it slide.

  • glass87onion

    Outdated CPU, fake 4K, downgraded VR games.
    Sony fanboys will wet their pants when Scorpio is revealed

    • Aenea

      Scorpio will just have a slightly better CPU, fake 4k and even more downgraded VR games.

      In order to support the Vive or the Rift Scorpio needs to be able to render 50% more frames per second, it also has to do it in a slightly higher resolution which means that it needs to render 87.5% more pixels per second than the Pro needs to do for PSVR. Since Scorpio is not 87.5% faster than the Pro, VR games will look worse on Scorpio than on the Pro.

      Then 4k, Scorpio will still not be able to do native 4k for all games. A handful more will be native 4k, the rest will use either straight up upscaling or use sparse rendering just like on the Pro, tho it will target slightly higher resolutions than the Pro will.

      Nothing to wet anyone’s pants about if you ask me…

    • Gamez Rule

      As we all know, it’s not all about power as history can show us.

      Example, XBOX was the more powerful games console when compared to PS2, yet it failed to sell like the PS2. Sony’s PS2 just offered more to the gamers and was more supported too hence why it sold the way it did.

      The PS4 is doing the above again with Xbone this gen and even when Scorpio releases that will not change ( unless Scorpio is really MS’s next gen console ) and they have dumped Xbone much like they done with XBOX back in PS2 days.

    • Aenea

      Yeah I know, that is reason enough for Scorpio to not be such a succes as many an Xbox fan wants it to be, but I also don’t believe that games on Scorpio will look all that different than on a Pro…

    • Gamez Rule

      Now that PS4-Pro boost mode is coming to console users everything we know about past tested games will have to go out the window and be re-looked at as loading times / frame-rates / quality, etc could have changed. ( Wonder if MS will copy Sony’s idea with their Scorpio )

      With Scorpio it’s being made out by MS to be a more powerful Xbone in the eyes of gamers and just a mid gen refresh ( like PS4-Pro ) and not a next gen console, and just by looking at how Xbone consoles are doing this gen when compared to PS4 should show Scorpio will not make any difference to Sony’s dominate console market lead.

      And although PS4-Pro is selling good and in many cases out of stock in many shops it still isn’t outselling stock PS4’s so why would some people think Scorpio will do better? lol

    • Luke Skywalker

      You’re silly to say microsoft will copy Sony’s idea. Microsoft has employed that feature way before Sony with Xbox BC and Xbox One S. Remember that games with unlocked frame rates and resolutions runs better on Xbox One S. So it’s a bit ridiculous that you’re fooling yourself.

      Also, Microsoft has already stated in last year that games with unlocked fps and res will benefit from Scorpio.

    • Gamez Rule

      “You’re silly to say microsoft will copy Sony’s idea” Well looking at how you said about BC well PS2 had BC with PSOne before any MS console. Just saying.

      Anyway getting back to your point, not all games work or run on Xbone using BC, and not all the games that do work on Xbone are better than the 360 versions while running on Xbone, so no Sony’s boost mode is not the same at all.

      Boost mode is giving gamers an option of improving this gen games throughout the board on PS4-Pro IF that gamer wants too and that is something not offered from MS even when looking at XboneS.

      As for what MS stated in the past we all know to wait and see as I still remember that Xbone wouldn’t work without Kinect, and how the cloud will make Xbone much more powerful, and how I felt when Kinect support got dropped like a wet fish for trying to game resources to help games run better even when MS stated it wouldn’t do that,.

      We should wait and see☺

    • Luke Skywalker

      1st about BC it seems you’re focusing on the wrong bit of information. I wasn’t talking backward compatibility in general as was obvious. Anyway, Sony wasn’t the first to do BC and it’s silly how they do it too because they have to have the actual hardware in the new device to be able to do BC. In PS2 they had to have the ps1 chip in, in ps3 they put the whole PS2 in there lol, in ps4 there’s no BC because I guess they haven’t figured out how to get a ps3 in it…

      But in any case I was referencing the feature that BC titles did get improvements running on the newer Xbox hardware, likewise titles with unlocked fps and res did get a boost running on Xbox One S. The boost is minimal because the somewhat 7% increase in hardware power was also minimal. So anyone with brain wouldn’t expect a 50% performance increase on a 7% up clock. But the fact and point is that performance in games increased because of the increase without patches needed from developers. Hence Microsoft have been doing this for a while. it’s not and won’t be something new for them, they do it automatically and don’t set a “switch” to enable it. Sony doesn’t do automatically because as they state games can have unexpected executions so they give you a choice to use at your own risk. However, Microsoft has a more robust vetting process for their features and games that get improvements are guaranteed to work properly.

      “we should wait and see “?
      It’s silly to say microsoft will copy this feature when in fact they’ve been doing it how long now. I mean, what exactly are you waiting to see, if Microsoft will continue to support the feature?

    • Gamez Rule

      “we should wait and see “? = To see if MS are tue to their word as explained before in post above I made. Example: IF P-Scorpio is ( as MS stated ) a *TRUE 4k gaming console* or that it’s really like PS4-Pro that needs upscaling etc

    • Luke Skywalker

      First the company said developers can use the console however they see fit to build their craft. There is no mandate that a developer HAS to ship their game IN 4K. So how it seems to me is that you’re pulling at straws and are trying to take things out of context.

      In any case so what if it upscales some games like the the ps4pro does? What’s the big deal?

      You know what is very hilarious to me right now? Weren’t you the one who went above and beyond in trying to say checkerboard in ps4pro wasn’t upscaling but here you are now calling it what it is.

    • Gamez Rule

      Where did I post that checkerboard in ps4pro wasn’t upscaling?

      And we all know that PS4-Pro can do native 4k, but it’s not a TRUE 4k gaming console as not ALL games can run native 4k.

      Yet MS are still stating that Scorpio is a TRUE 4k gaming console. So like I explained best we wait and see as IF Scorpio isn’t out-putting native 4k resolutions then in my eyes it’s not a TRUE 4kgaming machine and more like a boosted PS4-Pro with less games due to being released many months after Sony’s Pro console.

    • Luke Skywalker

      I’m almost certain I’ve seen you go hard about it but I have no time in going through old posts. It is not that important for me to go out of my way.

      I don’t understand your logic that if the console doesn’t do ALL games in 4K then it’s not a TRUE 4k console. that logic just doesn’t make sense at all to me…i mean, what then if I ask: what constitutes a TRUE gaming console?
      Will that answer be: it has to play ALL and ONLY games?
      Your logic cannot be applied to anything and be true.
      I’m hoping it started getting clear that how you interpret what Microsoft and Phil Spencer said is flawed. A car doesn’t always have to be driving at top speed to be a true high performance car. Does it mean an ice box isn’t a TRUE refrigerator?

      The truth is relative to the intent and purpose. What is the main purpose of a gaming console? what is the main purpose of a refrigerator? Etc. As you start answering those questions I’m sure you will start realizing that the console doesn’t need to play ALL games in 4k to be true to what it is but that most of its games run at the intended res.

      You can see it however you want to, but that doesn’t change it from what it is.

    • Gamez Rule

      Example: P-Scorpio ( as MS stated ) is a *TRUE 4k gaming console* what does that *TRUE* really mean?

      Could it be looked upon by a buyer as they need a 4k TV and not a 1080p TV as gaming will be at the standard 4k resolution due to being a *TRUE 4k gaming device*?

      What does *TRUE 4k gaming* really mean within MS’s statement? We all know that upscaling isn’t classed as true resolution or that using none native resolutions isn’t true, so what does MS mean by *TRUE 4k gaming*?

    • Luke Skywalker

      “P-Scorpio ( as MS stated ) is a *TRUE 4k gaming console* what does that *TRUE* really mean?”

      the console doesn’t need to play ALL games in 4k to be true to what it is but that most of its games run at the intended res.

      “Could it be looked upon by a buyer as they need a 4k TV and not a 1080p TV as gaming will be at the standard 4k resolution due to being a *TRUE 4k gaming device*?”

      No it wouldn’t’ be a need for a buyer to get a 4k tv, however it would be more of a recommendation. At the end of the day it is up to the developer to bring his game to the consumer the way he sees fit whether that be 1080p, 4k or somewhere in between. Microsoft have already gone on record stating it as such, there is no mandate that a developer has to bring his game at 4k. A developer can go 4k with high settings or 1800p with ultra high settings + parse render to 4k or however they see fit. the bottom line is the option is there that a developer CAN go 4k is they want to.

      “What does *TRUE 4k gaming* really mean within MS’s statement? We all know that upscaling isn’t classed as true resolution or that using none native resolutions isn’t true, so what does MS mean by *TRUE 4k gaming*?”

      once again, I believe it rests on the fact that there’s no mandate that developers must release their games at 4k. however, the power, framebuffer and option is there that they can if they chose.

      “IF a game running on P-Scorpio is not native 4K then surely it’s not classed as*TRUE 4k gaming*?”

      If a game running on scorpio isn’t native 4k but upscaled then that game isn’t true 4k. However, other games that are running at native 4k would be classed as true 4k games.

      on console as you know there are traditionally no graphical settings that a user can fine tune for himself, so it depends on the developer. if a developer wants to go 4k they can, if they want to do something else they can.

      You should stop trying to stick an absolute all or nothing blanket statement. Anyway, I’m sure scorpio gamers will enjoy their console a great deal. I’ll be getting one day one along with a cheap ps4 when it reaches 199 or less.

    • Gamez Rule

      Thank you for the replies.

      So after reading your answers P-Scorpio sounds just like the PS4-Pro and what that console offers gamers?

      Example: No mandate that developers must release their games at 4k and how that console when running at native 4k would be classed as true 4k gaming, no need for a gamer to get a 4k TV, however it would be more of a recommendation, etc.

      The above answers can make P-Scorpio sound just like a beefed up PS4-Pro but we all know that PS4-Pro isn’t a *TRUE 4k Gaming* machine even when able to play some games at native 4k.

      So yet again there must be a reason why MS have stated *TRUE 4k gaming* as otherwise Sony could have done the same with PS4-Pro as they already have games at native 4k while allowing no mandate for developers to release games at 4k.

    • Luke Skywalker

      Maybe You should also take the rest of my comment and my other replies into consideration when drawing your conclusion especially the parts where I said: ”
      the console doesn’t need to play ALL games in 4k to be true to what it is but that most of its games run at the intended res.”

      If Scorpio sounds like “a beefed up ps4pro” to you then so be it in your eyes, but don’t blot out the part that makes it better in hardware which means Scorpio will see more games in 4k, better performance in games, better graphical fidelity, etc.
      With the Xbox one and ps4 the consensus was that .52tf was a huge difference in power, however with Scorpio and ps4pro the rhetoric is now 1.8tf is not that big of a deal. If it’s a beefed up ps4pro then great, means it’s a stronger console than xb1 ps4 and ps4pro correct?

      the Scorpio and ps4pro are alike in what they set out to do, offer a better gaming experience than their respective predecessor.

    • Gamez Rule

      Remember ALL first-party titles coming to Scorpio in the console’s launch window will have to do native 4K and Shannon Loftis, general manager for publishing at Microsoft Studios stated this.

      And Penello stated that MS wanted developers to take their Xbox One engines and render them in native, true 4K. ( see below ). But to label a console *TRUE 4K* when it isn’t able to deliver ALL games in 4k is a bit misleading don’t you think? What would people say if Sony stated that with PS4-Pro that already has games in 4k but not all games are 4k native?

      “I think there are a lot of caveats they’re giving customers right now around 4K,” Penello said of Sony. “They’re talking
      about checkerboard rendering and up-scaling and things like that. There are just a lot of asterisks in their marketing around 4K, which is interesting because when we thought about what spec we wanted for Scorpio, we were very clear we wanted developers to take their Xbox One engines and render them in native, true 4K.”

      “Penello noted that developers will be able to use Scorpio’s extra power however they want, so native 4K isn’t an across the-board requirement. But Shannon Loftis, general manager for publishing at Microsoft Studios, told USA Today last week that all first-party titles coming to Scorpio in the console’s launch window will do native 4K”.

      ( see link ) http://www.polygon.com/2016/9/21/13001410/xbox-scorpio-4k-ps4-pro-power

    • Luke Skywalker

      OG Xbox was the first “foot in the door” console for the company, it had less support than its competitors and less recognition plus a number of other things. So it’s not so much a proper comparison. However,
      Xbox 360 was more powerful with great support (look how that turned out),
      Ps4 is more powerful with great support (look how it turned out).

    • Gamez Rule

      “Xbox 360 was more powerful with great support (look how that turned out)”

      Yes lets look at that.

      Even when PS3 was set at a higher price point to 360 Sony’s console still sold more within the same time span, and in truth both consoles hit the 80 million mark within the same year ( even when 360 was released approx 12 months before PS3 and had approx- a 10 million sale head start ) and from what has been shown PS3 still outsold the 360 in overall sales just before this gen started, even when people like myself bought more than one 360 console due to RROD problems before MS gave out the 3 year warranty.

      Now PS4 is powerful when compared to Xbone, but the support and more gaming choices also helps sell consoles not just the power as otherwise Wii would have flopped☺

    • glass87onion

      Zen CPU + 6TF Vega GPU + 12GB GDDR5 – RIP PS4-PRO

    • Aenea

      Ahh, MS released the specs now did they? You’re speculating and fantasising…

      Again, even if your dreams come true it won’t be enough for native 4k for ALL games nor wil it suddenly be able to render 1.875 times the pixels per second more than the PS4 Pro can with VR…

    • ShowanW

      I’ll take the developer of Ori enthusiasm as a positive sign….

      Since you are talkin theoreticals.. lets say its a
      Puma/Vega apu w/12GB RAM 320bandwith…

      That is SIGNIFICANT over Ps4pro

    • Aenea

      Even if it has a Vega based GPU 6TF is not gonna be enough for better quality VR nor for native 4k for ALL games.

      So no, it’s not significant over PS4 Pro…

    • ShowanW

      So higher graphical fidelity and higher (and much more consistent) frame rates is not significant now?…

      Im not into VR.. but that would easily be a much better experience..

      Dont get me wrong, neither of us know the final spec of Scorpio…

      But if ur gonna talk theoretically no matter if its puma/vega its gonna be much better. If we are talkin Zen/Vega its goin to be significantly better…
      On paper and in the wild…

    • Aenea

      Rift/Vive need 90 frames per second in a slightly higher resolution than PSVR which also only needs 60fps to work. This results in Scorpio needing to render 1.875 times the number of pixels per second of what a game needs to render for PSVR on the PS4 Pro.

      You think a 6TF Vega and a Zen CPU is going to achieve that? I don’t think so…

      —-
      As for 4k it will result in slightly higher graphical fidelity, slightly higher render resolutions and slightly better frame rates, so no, it’s not going to be significant.

      Thing is, like you said, we neither know the final specs AND how games will perform. You feel anything that is better is going to be significant, I on the other hand feel that from the specs we know the differences won’t be so big as to call it significant.

      We both agree on the fact that it will be better, we disagree on how well it will be visible and/or how we are going to call it (significant/slightly)…

    • Dougdec92

      I also heard the ps4 slim was doomed because it didn’t have a 4k bluray player,

    • angh

      Scorpio will be faster than ps4 pro almost same as ps4 pro is faster than xbox one. Xbox one fans did not wet their pants when ps4 has been announced, Sony fans are fine with 50% faster (than ps4 pro) scorpio.

    • Aenea

      I think you meant to write: “Scorpio will be faster than ps4 pro almost same as ps4 is faster than xbox one.”

      The second ps4 pro should be just ps4 otherwise your post doesn’t make any sense!

    • angh

      yup, you’re right, editing.

    • glass87onion

      Zen CPU + 6TF Vega GPU + 12GB GDDR5 = MONSTER

    • angh

      As I said, 50% faster than ps4 pro. So, if ps4 pro render a game at 1440p(3686400 pixels) @30fps, then Scorpio will do 1800p (5760000 pixels) @30 fps or 1440p@ 45 fps.

  • Mav6

    Sony made the PS4 Pro to help better support VR when MS announced Scorpio they figured it would be powerful enough to still compete. Not a chance people need to just get over it.

    • Godzer

      I sound a little bit delusional.

    • Aenea

      The Pro was not designed for VR, if it was PSVR would’ve supported HDR pass-thru….

  • Note5

    Sony is very smart to provide a smooth transition from 1080p to 4K with PS4 Pro.
    PS5 4K will arrive at the right time when 4K TV is mainstream.

    • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

      The meltdowns over even rumoured/hinted PS5 specs will be fun.
      It’s Sony playground, they have the games and support.

    • Eddie Battikha
    • Aenea

      Am sure it’s gonna be a year later…

    • Eddie Battikha

      Could be, we’ll find out when Scorpio is announced.

    • Luke Skywalker

      So ps5 basically a year after they launched the ps4pro??
      That’s some great business, sense isn’t it?
      /s

    • Psionicinversion

      no it will be 2019 not 2018

    • Gamez Rule

      I still use the PS3 and 360 while using the newer models this gen offers so even if PS5 was released soon it wouldn’t bother me really.

    • Eddie Battikha

      I thought that also, don’t forget in September Analyst Damian Thong who predicted PS4 Slim and Pro launch said maybe PS5 2nd half 2018, 2019 sounds perfect for PS5 and PSVR2. Well see what happens.

    • Psionicinversion

      all these analysts do is look at roadmaps for AMD and the roadmaps for the manufacturers like TSMC/Global and guess when something is coming out, anyone can do it. Doubt theyll have a PSVR2 for when PS5 is released

    • Tomaterrrx

      Would be daft to release the PS5 just over a year after the PS4 Pro.

    • Eddie Battikha

      November 2018 would be 2 years, 2019 makes more sense. Either way I’m in.

    • Tomaterrrx

      Yeah, I’m getting PS5 whenever it releases. But I do think a 2019 release would be a good idea.

    • Gamez Rule

      Could be a good idea when looking at it in a different way, example as follows.

      Example base PS4 was released November 15, 2013 ( say 6 years ago in Nov- 2019 ) while PS4-Pro was released world wide on November 10, 2016 ( say 3 years ago in Nov-2019 ) so releasing a base PS5 model in 2019 would allow base PS4 users to upgrade as their console is now 6 years old, while PS5-Pro users getting a PS5-Pro model released in 2021 is an upgrade to Pro buyers who’s console is would be 5 years old?

      People like myself may buy both and still use older models for certain games. As a PC gamer I also buy a GPU approx- every 4 years and some GPUs have cost me more than new console at times.

  • justerthought

    Another lame indie dev who can only do simple brute force PC code, complaining they have to do extra work and learn some new skills. The PS4 Pro is not an easy cash cow for PC indie devs like the PS4 was.

    These lazy devs want us to be like PC gamers where the gamer has to pay for more expensive hardware to brute force performance out of their inefficient code. They are criticising smart checkerboard tech because it requires extra work on their part and wanting us to pay extra for expensive brute force native 4K hardware. These guys are in the wrong job. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. Natural selection will weed them out with poor sales and they will go bust.

    I have nothing against creative indie devs if they work hard and do their best to produce a quality product at a cheap price. But when they start shouting their mouth off, trying to wreck a platform by pouring cold water over it, I say good riddance.

    Let’s be honest. We don’t care what these small devs think. We are not going to buy their games anyway. We bought the elite PS4 Pro to play elite AAA games that push console technology forward. All the large AAA studios are onboard no problem and relishing the opportunities the new console brings. They are working on some awesome titles.

    • Direct-XbotMK1 Elite

      You have a point. Of course he would say he is disappointed because he wants Sony to use his own method instead of checkerboard rendering.

    • Invader Phlegm

      I don’t see what the problem is with that. If they have a technique truly better than checker boarding, then Sony fans need to stop being fanboys and demand Sony take a look at that tech and integrate it directly into the PS4 Pro’s devkits. Games in 2017 won’t be able to take advantage of the better tech, but games in 2018 and beyond, should.

      But knowing how the game industry works, even using upscaling [checker boarding] as the main render tech for the PS4 Pro, Sony has missed the boat by using outdated tech – this time in middleware.

      With the way things have been going, I would not be too surprised to hear [by this summer] that Microsoft bought Artomatix, and is integrating their superior upscale rendering tech directly into Xcorpio devkits.

      True, Microsoft has stated that Xcorpio can achieve native 4K60, has promised that 1st party games will do just that, and no doubt will have a full line up of games this November at the Xcorpio launch to back up that promise. However (and as a gamer, I am extremely happy for this), they have told 3rd parties they are not required to use the power of Xcorpio purely for resolution boosting to 4K. Unlike on PS4 Pro, on Xcorpio, developers are free to use the full power of the system to add more graphical effects into games. That means better shaders, better fog, fire, water, and atmospheric effects – and more of them on screen at once. It means better lighting and shadowing effects. It means a whole plethora of things that make games ACTUALLY look better and become more immersive.

      But then what about 4K you say? And that is a fair enough question. Xcorpio games seem like they will come in two varieties: those that are native 4K; and those that max out graphical effects. But that is where something like Artomatix’s neural networked upscaling techniques would come into play. If it is truly years ahead of checker boarding like they say it is, then it should be able to fool the human eye into thinking a game that is not native 4K, actually is.

      Now I am not saying that Microsoft is using Artomatix’s tech as part of the Xcorpio devkits. But the game industry is a lot smaller place than many may imagine. And Microsoft is always out looking for new tech to enhance their product offerings. And by Artomatix’s CTO doing this interview, calling out Sony for not using superior tech to upscale with, which thanks to social media is going to be seen by thousands – maybe hundreds of thousands, they just put a crosshairs right on their backs for acquisition by Microsoft. And that is why I would not be surprised. So long as their tech does what they claim, unless Microsoft has something better already, these guys are as good as bought before the end of the year.

      ———————————

      Sorry about the wall of text. All of this was much shorter in my head, when I thought it out.

    • justerthought

      I’ll just respond to the first paragraph:

      1 – Checkerboard rendering is proven to work on PS4 Pro and this guy is trashing it for his own gain.

      2 – We only have his word for it that his tech is better. It has not been proven.

      3 – The way he describes checkerboard rendering indicates he has very little technical knowledge of how it works, so that sort of blows his credentials out of the water.

      That’s not being a touchy fanboy. That’s exposing a scam.

    • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

      Bang on, Sony are in no way scared.
      PS4 will hit 65-70million end of this year easy.
      And the “exclusives” games.

      Not flops like 720p Quantum Break with a forced B grade TV show intermixed with it. But Xbox did fans praised the TV show for been true in 1080p.
      Since a TV media system was what they always wanted 🙂

    • Jenniferlcrawford

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    • Dale

      Your comment is deriving from the whole article entirely, it’s not about the sales or financial figures.. The article is comparing the checkerboard rendering technique to full native 4K rendering. There IS a noticeable difference (although what do you expect from £400), but this article is essentially stating that there is a difference.

    • Digital Foundry called the outdated Checkerboard rendering ‘brilliant’**, so in Pony world the case is settled.

      **Does not apply to Xbox games using the same checkerboard rendering

    • Psionicinversion

      only because a console hasnt used it before, but the guy in the article is obviously light years ahead of digital foundry on technical knowledge of this stuff seeing as hes the one inventing future technologies/

    • justerthought

      No he’s not light years ahead in his technical knowledge. He still thinks an upscale must result blurring. Blurring come from an average calculation like a bog standard bilinear upscale.

      Checkerboard rendering is not a pixel averaging process to determine the new pixels where a black pixel next to a white pixel creates a 50% grey in between. Checkerboard rendering is far more complex and involved temporal pixel data from previous frames that is tracked across the screen and the edges of the underlying wireframe mesh is used to determine edges. That means there is a partial re-renderingdueing the3 upscale so this actually creates new detail not present in the original.

      Like I said, this tech company is just trashing other peoples work to make their tech look better. But they don’t even understand how Checkerboard rendering works. They think it’s just a blurred upscale like all the other naive cynics.

    • MS

      Oh shut up you angry sounding fanboy. MS fanboys are no better, as a matter of fact they are worst!

    • justerthought

      Fanboys tell lies to promote their favourite platform. Fans tell the truth and just praise the praise worthy.

      There is a difference, but you’re obviously oblivious.

      Yes tell liars to shut up, but never censor the truth by telling people who just relay the facts.

    • MS

      F-that! If they geniunely have a better solution then i honest wish Sony would take a look at it, but Sony does then to be behind the times.

  • Interesting, it sounds like he’s more disappointing in Sony picking this functionality instead of his own.

    Sounds like the rant Nvidia made about Sony and MS choosing AMD hardware instead of theirs.

    Oh well, these guys will never learn to stop running their mouths in these interview and social sites.

  • Godzer

    Microsoft fanboys are working hard here.

    • Bad wolf

      D.umb station fanboys are the one working so hard damage controlling.

    • Eddie Battikha

      Another Xboner that doesn’t have a vote.

    • Mr Xrat

      You should try reading the article, d1pshit. It’s some guy hawking his own tech.

  • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

    So the Scorpio then should all be 100% true 4k native games right?
    There will be a sh4t storm if even just one title is up-scaled.

    Since 4k was promised. Lets see how well that goes for them

    • Gamez Rule

      I’m waiting for the storm. If people believe that ALL games made for Xbone / Scorpio will be running native 4k at 60 fps for a price that some people believe will be approx-£400 then they need help.

    • Luke Skywalker

      No one believes that you’re just making things up so you’ll have a point to a no-point argument.

    • kma99

      Sony guys hear what they wantto hear. Therefore when they find out that not all games will be doing 4k they can stick their chest out and say ” told you so”. Lol funny thing is, Microsoft already said you are not mandated to do 4k.

    • Gamez Rule

      MS state this as of today “True 4K Gaming” So if MS start up-scaling games is it a TRUE 4k gaming console? OR is it just like PS4-Pro that can do some games at native 4k but isn’t a true 4k gaming device?

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/4a14645004efb7e7a9711797bf43fd1093d70f6ffdc6661b05856667a0b558dc.jpg

    • kma99

      Ms stated it’s up to the developer also. Why aren’t you quoting that? Ms also states that first party titles will be doing 4k, why didnt you quote that?

    • Gamez Rule

      Because MS themselves are still stating online on their very own MS web page Project Scorpio = “True 4K Gaming”

    • kma99

      Ok will their first party games do 4k? Yes so tell us again how they lied?

    • J.j. Barrington

      Will they?

    • Gamez Rule

      Lied? What you on about and where have I even posted such a thing?

      I stated the following “If people believe that ALL games made for Xbone / Scorpio will be running native 4k at 60 fps for a price that some people believe will be approx-£400 then they need help”

      I also stated the following “MS state this as of today “True 4K Gaming” So if MS start up-scaling games is it a TRUE 4k gaming console? OR is it just like PS4-Pro that can do some games at native 4k but isn’t a true 4k gaming device?”

      I then stated this to your question “Because MS themselves are still stating online on their very own MS web page Project Scorpio = “True 4K Gaming”

      So where have I stated MS lied? Oh that’s right I didn’t and just like always you only read what you want to read ☺

    • kma99

      Dude you’re sitting here complaining about the wording on their web page. Stop playing dumb

    • Gamez Rule

      I’m not complaining at all, I’ve just posted what MS state about P-Scorpio and how it’s classed as a “True 4K Gaming” console on their own web-site☺

    • The Little One

      He’s right. While you may be digging into the details, most average consumers are not. Trust me. I’ve spoken to numerous people who are under the impression that Scorpio will do “REAL” 4K games while the Pro is doing “FAKE” 4K. It’s specifically because MS got up on a stage and loudly and proudly proclaimed the Scorpio as a native 4K box even though those of us who know ANYTHING about this stuff knows that that isn’t going to be the case. And if you DO believe that they’ll be able to get significant titles running at native 4K with low power hardware, then you need to either get your head out of the sand or get ready for significantly less detailed first party titles with native 4K rendering. The Scorpio will be more or less in the same boat as the Pro. It’s just that Sony came out and said “look, we’ve got this technique that will deliver nearly identical quality without stressing the hardware or requiring super expensive hardware.” Whereas MS came out making claims that I’m sure most of the library won’t be able to back up. And, at the end of the day, checkerboarded games look fine. Also keep in mind that there are various techniques that can be used with the Pro. Just look at Ratchet and Clank. Insomniac came up with a rendering technique that isn’t native 4K but looks fantastic. So, to sum up: Scorpio will not do a whole lot of native 4K but Microsoft’s wording has led people to believe the opposite, and really native 4K isn’t even necessary if your engine team is clever enough.

    • Gamez Rule

      Well said.

    • Evil_Annie_2015

      Isn’t that what Sony did Intentionally while the media followed even when the Ps4 had just 0.5Tflop more in power over the Xbox One? Now that MS’s new machine will have almost 2 TFLOPS more over the Pro, then all of a sudden the power differences are minimal.

      Also, do you remember when Quantum Break used checkerboarding? DF NEVER came up with a statement of what percentage of 1080p the game was. They only did it for the pro, and that is the reason you feel good about the technique this time around because they told you that it is 95% close to 4K. However, that is simply their opinion but you believe it so it is fine for you.

      Now, what the CTO of artomatix is saying is that there is nothing especial about checkerboarding, and it is simply an old technique used.

    • The Little One

      1. I don’t recall Sony ever saying a thing about their performance advantages over the Xbox One. I remember them simply saying that they asked developers what they needed to make great content and they did what they could to meet those desires. The slight horsepower advantage came as a result of Sony communicating with developers. It was not an attempt, necessarily, to one up Microsoft. And if it WAS that they certainly didn’t go proclaiming as much in press conferences. And just as a side note on the power differences: A 0.5 TFLOP difference in performance is not much. It’s basically just enough of a difference for developers to make that leap from sub 1080p to full 1080p and maybe iron out some performance hitches. The performance increase of the scorpion will scale and give similarly small gains considering what they are trying to achieve. If you believe a 2 TFLOP increase will magically allow native 4K gaming then you’ve got another thing coming.

      2. In regards to DF and their findings on Quantum Break, I recall them being just as specific as they have been on any other analysis they’ve done. I remember them even commending the technique but at the end of the day they were working with a 720p frame buffer and there’s only so much you can do with that. The situation completely changes when you’re working with a 1440p (already 4x the pixel count of a 720p image) or higher base rendering. So yeah, they probably were more enthused about the checkerboard rendering being employed on the Pro because the significantly higher base resolutions combined with the checkerboarding produces a pristine image. Also, it is more than just DF’s “opinion” on the matter. I have my GTX1080 equipped PC hooked up to my 4K TV right along with my PS4 Pro. And I promise you that you would not be able to spot the difference on a blind comparison. Their tech (combined with the limited returns of 4K TVs below 70″) is just that good.

      3. This crybaby CTO’s comments here are nothing more than him being upset that Sony didn’t choose to work with them for the Pro. And why would they? When they came up with their own simple, easy to implement technique that looks good and also allows adaptation on the part of developers without introducing yet another Middleware platform with hefty licensing fees and diminished opportunity for developers to deviate and come up with their own thing? Of course they would not have taken that course of action. And of course the guys who got turned down are salty about it. Now badmouthing Sony and in the process getting people like you all riled up.

    • Evil_Annie_2015

      1. Then you need to go back a few articles and read Yoshida’s comments on how 1080p would make you a “better gamer”, or his tweets reported in a GAmepur.com article: ….”PS4 vs Xbox One: Shuhei Yoshida Having Fun With 720p/1080p Resolution Debate”…….That pretty much tells you who started the resolution war. Now, What’s interesting about your comment is that MS seemed to be the one communicating with developers this time around since it is giving them 6 tflops of power while Sony ignored them by releasing a more weaker machine that needs an old technique to sniff anything 4K which is the reason this guy is disappointed as a matter of his personal opinion. I don’t know if the Scorpio will do native 4K, that is pretty much what MS claims with their first party studios, buttI do know that 2 tflops advantage will simply give third party studios the option to make their games look and run much better than on the Pro.

      2. DF analysis are fine for those who care for about resolution and frame rates which otherwise would be almost impossible to spot. I am simply highlighting their bias because only when it came to Sony’s console they threw in their OPINION of how “close” the checkerboard image was to the target resolution (native 4K). Also, You need to keep in mind that QB’s checkerboarding was just trying to achieve 1080p not 4K, so your comparison between the 720p and 1440p is not a very good example. I agree with you though about not being able to tell differences with the naked eye when it comes to resolution because it was never evident on 900p vs 1080p, and I am sure that 1440p to 4K will also be almost negligible.

      3. Artomatix CTO may very well have some ulterior motives, but we don’t know if he asked for an interview with gamingbolt or they were the ones who went to him for an insight when it comes to upscaling. He is simply not impressed with Sony’s approach based on his knowledge on the matter, so I would hardly call that a crybaby act. The reason I commented on this article is because it is so evident that PS “fans” who ran around wild with the “power” argument are the ones who are trying to downplay it now .

    • Tomaterrrx

      I think ‘true 4k gaming’ is a little misleading.

    • Gamez Rule

      So do I, but time will tell IF Scorpio is a TRUE 4k gaming console or not☺.

    • Tomaterrrx

      I’m 99% sure Scorpio won’t do 4K on every game. Even if it did I’d prefer a 1080p image with max graphics settings. I only have a 1080p TV so I don’t need the extra pixels

    • Josh

      First party, don’t spread false info

    • Tactical Lag-fighting tips

      SO its not all then

    • Tomaterrrx

      Lol what dumb*** thinks Scorpio has a chance of doing 4K on everything. MS themselves said the first parties will do 4K and third parties can do what they want.

  • Jimmy DoneGood

    Scorpio will still look beter and perform better with games. That’s just facts.

    • Gamez Rule

      With what games? This is the thing, we all know what is on offer to PS4-Pro users and now ( boost mode ) is coming in an update allowing all games to use PS4-Pro’s extra power but what games does Scorpio offer buyers or what games will look and perform better?

  • J.j. Barrington

    Pramath, you try so hard. Maybe you should just stick to reporting on Xbox, since your coverage of PlayStation can’t come without bias.

  • ruefrak

    Cerny said in the PS4 Pro conference that the reason they went this route was because it was the only way to do it due to cost and energy consumption issues. In other words, Sony could have made a console that did 4k natively, but the thing would be so expensive and run so hot that it just wouldn’t make sense.

    • Mavericks

      Sony could have waited one year for AMD to put out better graphics at the same cost right now.

      They rushed to the market and see what happened.

  • Apollo Dean Campbell

    Checker boarding doesn’t work, that;s the reason why the PS Pro is selling so poorly. and if Microsoft takes this route (which I doubt) then they’ll also struggle to sell hardware. it’s clear that Microsoft’s Scorpio is in it to win it… there’s no way that they would launch an Xbox 4 console that did the same thing the PS Pro does.
    sorry Sony, it’s game over!.

  • The Little One

    Company that specializes in rendering techniques is mad that Sony didn’t utilize their services and instead came up with their own thing. Why am I not surprised…

  • Gamez Rule

    A deep-dive into the genius of the Pro with Mark Cerny “The PS4 Pro, though, goes way beyond upscaling”

    Worth a read I guess.

    http://www.stuff.tv/in/features/you-wont-be-able-tell-difference-between-ps4-pro-games-and-proper-4k

  • Mr Xrat

    Xgimps doing a great job showing themselves up as desperate, ignorant vermin again.

  • Evil_Annie_2015

    An expert is telling the Sony fanboys that Sony went cheap with the PS Pro..lol…He better be ready to get threats and petitions to have him fired. 🙂

  • Luke Skywalker

    Ok man…

  • dogen

    This guy is confusing spatial checkerboard rendering with the temporal version that sony is using. There’s a big difference between the two.


 

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