PS4 GPU Can Handle 64bit Path, Xbox One Must Render 32bit To Avoid Bandwidth Issues

Avalanche head of research Emil Persson explains why at GDC 2014.

Posted By | On 30th, Mar. 2014 Under News


PS4 Xbox one

Avalanche Studios head of research Emil Persson recently spoke about DirectX 11 low-level shader optimization for both the Xbox One and PS4, especially with concerns to the render output unit or ROP, which explains how many pixels can be output per clock. He talks about how the PS4’s GPU can handle a 64 bit path until bandwidth issues arise while explaining why the Xbox One will need to stick to a 32bit path. Both consoles’ GPUs were compared to the ATI Radeon HD7970, which can handle a 128bit path.

“As hardware has gotten increasingly more powerful over the years, some parts of it has lagged behind. The number of ROPs (i.e. how many pixels we can output per clock) remains very low. While this reflects typical use cases where the shader is reasonably long, it may limit the performance of short shaders.

“Unless the output format is wide, we are not even theoretically capable of using the full bandwidth available. For the HD7970 we need a 128bit format to become bandwidth bound. For the PS4 64bit would suffice.”

“On the XB1, if we are rendering to ESRAM, 64bit just about hits the crossover point between ROP and bandwidth-bound. But even if we render to the relatively slow DDR3 memory, we will still be ROP-bound if the render-target is a typical 32bit texture.”

Thoughts on the above? Let us know in the comments.


Awesome Stuff that you might be interested in

  • KingMe….

    I had a bad dream last night. It was me about to by a Xbox One.

    • Kam Williams

      I had a bad dream too…i was walking through my life with so little education that I could not even spell the word “buy” when trying to insult others….woke up in a cold sweat man…just imaging being that stupid 🙂

    • Ian Williams

      Nice one.

    • Agent_Blade

      That was so lame.

    • KingMe….

      Thank God I didn’t $500 on that mistake… I would be really embarrassed.

    • Carlos

      *Imagining… if you plan to throw rocks, get it right!

    • Speedboat

      I think “Imagine” would have fit better into that sentence structure.

    • justerthought

      There are more serious things than arguing over spelling errors, such as nightmares about your powerful PS4 turning into a lame XB1.

  • adam

    Its means both the PS4 and Xbox is sh**t compared to the PC. At least the Xbox is a decent entertainment system and got better games.

    • Xtreme Derp

      No. Another xbot hiding behind a PC to distract from their favorite underpowered, overpriced box.

    • Kam Williams

      Naw not really. I know a lot of people who are building gaming PCs this gen because the consoles are just behind the curve this time and people want 1440p and up on certain games. Plus with steam OS dropping they’ve pulled a lot of people over. You can still buy whichever console you want for the exclusives and what not. I’m just trying to find the right small form factor case. Thought the M8 was gonna be my ticket but I’m not sure if i can decent graphics card in that thing…we’ll see….

    • Xtreme Derp

      If you have $1000 to burn on a high end gaming PC sure. One big reason PS4 is so popular is price/performance for $400.

      Microsoft xbot fanboys keep pointing to PCs as if that excuses xbox for being weaker and more expensive.

    • KingMe….

      Shhh just stop thinking, you’re hurting yourself.

    • Patrick Parnin

      First off, “Naw” isn’t a word that I would start with.. especially when trying to defend a 3ft (at times) experience, to a 30+ at times. And before you call my a “troll” odds are, my PC gaming rig is better than yours, I have a PS4, and an XBOX1. And, PS3, PS2, 360, Xbox (the first one) Playstation.. Pretty much every Nintendo up until the Wii, A Sega master system, and a Genesis.. (Sonic was awesome back then) Anymore, I’ll take my old school 320p games, or whatever they where back then.. to the crap that people push out now!! (with a few acceptations)

    • justerthought

      Why do we want 1440p upwards when our TV’s max out at 1080p. Console gamers want to play in their living room relaxing on a sofa in front of their huge HD TV screen, not hunched over a computer monitor that has to render in high res because it shows up all the jaggies.

    • Cigi

      You are a very pathetic person – trying to feel good by bashing other people. I really feel sorry for you. You are all over the news with negative propaganda. Why are you so insecure – go play with yourself and your fantastic choose of hardware. I for one look forward to E3 – here we will see games – that is what matters. And i am pretty sure we will have heard the last of you. You will need to hide as the pathetic fanboy you are.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Delusional, worthless, dumb as rocks Microsoft fanboy is angry that PS4 is significantly more powerful, has more developer support, and outselling Xbox almost 2:1 globally.

      Sorry the facts upset you and cause you to act like a whiny infant. And if you’re suggesting some insane misterxturd special sauce power reveal at E3, you’re wrong.

    • Jacob S

      Idk, I play both PS4 and X1. I have a X1 and a PC capable of running Crysis 3 on high settings. I like my X1 over my PC but you can’t beat the deals on Steam. My brother and one of my best friends have both PS4 and Xbox1. Both of them like the Xbox1 better.

  • You are flat out wrong

    Don’t worry guys, DX12 will pick up the slack! misterxmedia told me so!

    • Ian Williams

      Hey d1k head. Your leader san has stated that drm is in the ps4. Phony liars all along

    • Xtreme Derp

      Wrong, dumb imbecile fanboy as usual.

    • Ian Williams

      Correct, see above. Liars liars liars. All since e3 haha

    • Xtreme Derp

      You’re so stupid you believe PS4 has some kind of timed DRM
      check-ins when it’s just the same account license thing that’s on PS3,
      PSP, and Xbox 360 digital sales.

      Constantly WRONG dumb, delusional, evil, malicious, disgusting and hateful Microsoft fanboy. You are monstrous, demented, and worthless, lying over and over. Disgusting horrifying monstrous evil worthless sack of rotten garbage. You Microsoft fanboys must eat crow for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, or live in constant delusion and denial to be so WRONG over and over and over again.

    • Ian Williams

      Eat your drm thicko eat it good and when your done you can have some more

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.a

    • You are flat out wrong

      These Xbots have finally jumped the shark. I can’t wait until they get kicked out of the industry.

    • Ian Williams

      How?

    • You are flat out wrong

      The shareholders and Elop finally firesale the Xbone to Amazon. $3 billion total loss over 14 years! What a disaster.

    • Peebles

      if u haven’t got an xbox one yet they are going on sale at some major retailers do to overstock and low demand. Now’s your time!

    • Xtreme Derp

      They’re so stupid they’ll believe PS4 has some kind of timed DRM check-ins when it’s just the same account license thing that’s on PS3, PSP, and Xbox 360 digital sales.

    • Ian Williams

      Phony by name phony by nature

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Constantly WRONG dumb, delusional, evil, malicious, disgusting and
      hateful Microsoft fanboy. You are monstrous, demented, and worthless,
      lying over and over. Disgusting horrifying monstrous evil worthless sack
      of rotten garbage. You Microsoft fanboys must eat crow for breakfast,
      lunch, and dinner, or live in constant delusion and denial to be so
      WRONG over and over and over again.

    • Ian Williams

      You’ve posted this, how many times. There’s a deal on at kfc, all the drm you can eat for $400 dolla

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.

    • Ian Williams

      drm

    • Peebles

      And there’s a deal at most major retailers right now, $50 buck off on their “Please buy an Xbone!” sale. Layaway available, free games…please, just take ONE!

    • Peter Samaras

      wow man im really sorry you are like this

    • Xtreme Derp

      I’m really sorry you mentally ill, dumb as bricks fanboys hate facts.

    • You are flat out wrong

      It always was there, you dumb f*ck Xbot! PS4’s DRM is the exact same as PS3. If you have the correct licenses and activate your PS4, you can play it offline all you want and shared it with a second console.

      What last May was about was keeping DRM off disc-based games and stopping the 24 hour check. It succeeded. Deal with it. Sh*tbox Done!

    • Ian Williams

      Correct licenses, like you got to buy them. Fact is you unplug from internet and games don’t work. A message appears saying a connection is needed. That’s drm. Open your eyes phonybit, lies all lies since e3, you’ve all been sold down the river. Eat it d1k head.

    • You are flat out wrong

      Wrong. I made sure I had the licenses and checked my PS4 was activated, then I logged out of PSN and played Resogun, Dead Nation and Outlast without any restrictions. You’ve been lied to by fellow Xbots still salty you got blown the f*ck out last May. Eat it you taffy tw*t.

    • Ian Williams

      Bs bs. Warning damage limitation. Warning damage limitation. Look at the phonybots squirming like the worms they are. Hahaha

    • You are flat out wrong

      I’d tell you to look up the issues behind the events last May but you’re so f*cking dumb I doubt you’d understand it anyway. Sh*tbox Done!

    • Ian Williams

      Phony liars

    • You are flat out wrong

      It was always about disc-based games, you ignorant taff. Get a clue!

    • FFfan

      He’s just trolling.
      Facts don’t lie. They are desperate and they know Xbox will sit in a firm #2 this gen…maybe drop to 3 if Wii U picks up.
      I kind of pity them.

    • You are flat out wrong

      I was hoping the Wii U would kick the Xbone in the teeth but it’s looking unlikely. A real shame.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.

    • Ian Williams

      Don’t forget the drm

    • Ian Williams

      No drm they said. Drm you have eat it ya saesneg t*at

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.a

    • You are flat out wrong

      No disc-based DRM, you ignorant taffy moron. Sh*tbox Done!

    • Ian Williams

      They said no drm. They lied to millions of gullible gets like YOU. Drm.

    • You are flat out wrong

      No DRM on disc-based games you stupid taffy chimp!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ-To7WJyWs

    • Ian Williams

      No drm they said. Lies you’ve been fed

    • You are flat out wrong

      You didn’t even watch the video! Taffy in ruins! Xbone is finished!

    • Ian Williams

      Eat that bs good boy! Eat it all up,that’s good.drm for the millions with lies lies lies.

    • You are flat out wrong
    • Ian Williams

      So easy to wind you phonybots up

    • You are flat out wrong

      “I-I was just pretending to be stupid!!!”

      End yourself. 🙂

    • Ian Williams

      easy easy easy hahahahahahahahahahahaha throw it up watch um chomp on the bs

    • You are flat out wrong

      “I-it’s fake!” Yep, you Xscum have finally reached peak stupid. End yourself. 🙂

    • Ian Williams

      Eat it

    • You are flat out wrong

      All these hours later and you’re still wrong. Most decent Xbots quietly conceded defeat and shut up. You’re a scummer though, so it’s different for you. 🙂

    • FFfan

      I’m sorry. I would hug people like you if I could…you bought an Xbox One and now you are sad…we get it. It’s okay.
      At least you have Titan Fall…even if it’s not true exclusive, you can hang on to that! Hang on tight!

    • Ian Williams

      hanging on every word you said. enjoy your door stop and flower at 91 on metacritic

    • Ian Williams

      No drm they said. Drm it has they’ve now said

    • You are flat out wrong

      I’ve shown you three videos. You’re a ret*rd. Look up what happened last May, then end yourself. 🙂

    • FFfan

      You really are a failure at trolling. At least I hope that’s trolling and not stupidity.

    • Ian Williams

      Deffo trolling the drm for the foreseeable future. I’m enjoying this.

    • FFfan

      But it makes no sense…all systems have digital drm and PS is even more lenient than most. You CAN play games offline, I do it all the time.
      So either you are purposely ignoring it and are trolling or you are a total idiot who can’t read.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.a

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.

    • Reaper

      I’m not going to get dragged into a trolling session, but from speaking to most of my friends some PS4 some XB1 owners. All of them are pretty much agreed that apart from a few resolution issues both machines are similar and none of them have any MUST BUY games yet. Also a few of us wished we had saved our cash stuck with 360 and ps3 and bought next gen next year. As a Day One Xbox one owner I feel your all arguing over nothing and its getting OLD.
      Enjoying South Park: the stick of truth on my 360 🙂

    • Xtreme Derp

      If you don’t care you wouldn’t be here.

    • Reaper

      I didn’t say I don’t care so now you just look silly

    • Xtreme Derp

      You’re just here to thread whine about tech discussion. PS4 is outselling Xbox almost 2:1 globally so you’re in the tiny minority when it comes to how “similar” the consoles are.

    • Reaper

      I love how you just follow a random meaningless troll post with just more meaningless troll posts, as I said most of the people I know who own PS4 and some own Xbox ones say there both similar and are both lacking any real must buy games. Unfortunately for YOU and fortunately for everyone else, complete trolling morons like you are definitely becoming the minority in the gaming community. RIP

    • justerthought

      You’re a deluded fool who listens to other deluded fools, then starts shouting his mouth off. I just ran a test. I unplugged my internet, fired up my PS4 and started to play Resogun that I got free with PSN Plus. The DRM license is stored on the console allowing me to play it as long as my subscription is up to date and I am still a member of PSN Plus. All other games on disc play as well apart from the multiplayer parts, because the internet is turned off.

      You don’t get anything for nothing unless you pirate it. DRM has many different forms. Even putting the game on a disc is DRM because it won’t play on a different console. Some forms of DRM are transparent until you try to pirate the media, and some are just unbearably restrictive the MS version.

      Conclusion, you are viewing PS4 through the eyes of what you are seeing on xbox and think Sony are the same. It’s time you jumped ship because everything is totally different on this side of the fence. No game errors popping up stopping us playing when the internet is not active.t

    • Ian Williams

      So when you have no subscription you can’t play games on console so my point was valid. what game errors you on about. phony 4 still getting the e error? Deluded you are!

    • Xtreme Derp

      Factual PS4 Hardware Advantages: +6 CUs, +560 GFlops (44% greater), +16 ROPs, +6 ACEs/CQs, better GPGPU support, better performing CPU, and faster unified memory. PS4 OS may also have less overhead or reserves.

      Both Sony and MS have world class coders that will extract every bit of performance out of their consoles with their drivers/APIs/SDKs. The difference is PS4 simply has more powerful hardware to work with, so it will always stay ahead in graphics performance.

      PS4 will have better performing games for the entire generation as it has more powerful hardware, you can’t overcome a hardware gap with better drivers/SDKs.

      Infamous is technically superior in every way. 1080p, 35 fps average (according to DF), open world, next gen visual effects, cutscenes are mostly realtime, etc.

      If you think a 900p, 20 fps average, QTE corridor brawler with copypasted barbarian enemies and CG movie cutscenes “looks better”, that’s your dumb and delusional opinion.

      It’s still a fact PS4’s hardware is superior and its games are technically more advanced as a result.

      PS4 has the best 1st party studios in the industry, the best versions of multiplats, greater developer support including indies, and far more software and hardware sales. It’s dominating and you’re an angry, delusional, bitter fanboy child.

      PS4 6 million, Xbox 3.5 million by end of Feb 2014. PS4 will still outsell Xbox globally March 2014 despite price drops and Titanfall bundles. PS4 likely at 7 million, Xbox 4 million by end of Mar 2014. That’s 1.75:1 globally.

      Xbox will hardly sell anything in smaller “tier 2” markets already dominated by PS3 and PS4. The global gap is growing wider and won’t stop, Xbox will never surpass PS4 in global sales. End of story.

      Your favorite piece of plastic is getting dominated by PS4 in sales, games performance, and dev support, causing you to harbor fevered delusions about Sony going bankrupt. Sorry, won’t happen anytime soon.

      The Xbox brand has lost MS billions of dollars, with Xbox One set to continue that trend. It’s a business failure that MS shareholders increasingly want to get rid of.

      Once you log in to your PSN account and download a digital game, you can then play it offline indefinitely from the same local account. If you log into another local account while offline and try to play a digital game, it won’t authenticate, you have to locally (still offline) log back into the account that “owns” and downloaded the game. It works the same way on PS3 or even PSP and Xbox Live. This isn’t anything new, it’s worked this way on PS3 and PSP as well. There are still no “timed DRM checks” for non-PS+ PSN games. Unless it’s a PS+ game which expires if you don’t renew your subscription.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Well if misterxmedia himself said it, it must be true!

    • justerthought

      XB1 is struggling to run all the functions within DX11, so don’t go holding your breath for any secret sauce coming from DX12. The best you can expect is a more efficient build that uses less system resources when performing basic tasks.

    • You are flat out wrong

      Pretty much. It’ll probably allow them to transfer the Snap functionality to the CPU from the GPU so they can put that reserved 2% back to games.

  • James

    This article doesnt make any sense at all.
    The headline says Ps4 can handle 64bit path while the xbox one must stick to 32bit.
    Then in the quote it says the Ps4 becomes bandwidth bound at 64bit output and the Xbox one becomes bandwidth or Rop bound at 64bit output through esram and can handle 32bit thru its ddr3. That clearly means that both the Ps4 and Xbox one can handle 64bit render paths but both have the potential of maxing out bandwidth. How is the author getting the impression that the Xbox one cant output a 64bit render path? This is not about being a fanboy it’s about putting the correct info in the headline and article intro. Yes everyone knows the Ps4 has more Rops and compute units, but just because it has those extra rops doesnt mean it has enough memory bandwidth to actually fill them. Dont get me wrong I think 32 rops was a smart choice on sony’s part because it does provide them with over head for thier render targets. Please correct your headline and opening paragraph because it does not match the info you provide from the developer. Both the X1 and Ps4 have the bandwidth needed to output 64 bit render targets, that doesnt mean that they will both exclusively use that format at all times.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Sure, assuming the ESRAM never drops under the theoretical maximum 109GB/s write, and assuming you can fit your entire render target into 32MB. Developers are mostly solving this by dropping the resolution to 900 or 720p.

    • James

      I hear people bringing up the size of the esram all the time but for 32mb of ram to reach a bandwidth of 109gbs one way it is emptying and filling several times per second to reach that speed. So really if it is used properly why does the size mater so much to everyone. Sure the size can come into play for deffered rendering with so many different targets but thats when they would have some render targets coming from ddr3 and some coming from esram. My original post wasnt really trying to compare system capabilities as it was trying to point out the inconsistencies in the article. Sure the Ps4 has 1 large pool of fast memory, but the bandwidth issues with render targets doesnt change because the memory pool is 8gb. Everything has to go through the main memory on the Ps4. Texture streaming, asset loading, audio, and render targets not to mention you have to take away some bandwidth for the cpu. I know from what Ive read that devs are having an easy time working with the Ps4 architecture. Sony designed a very smart powerful system. Ive also heard that dev tools for the X1 werent that great at launch and are now starting to improve. The memory setup in the X1 could possibly allow for some great things once everything about it is figured out. The Ps4 is clearly more powerful as far as gpu alu and fillrate but that doesnt mean it cant have the same bottlenecks with fillrate that the X1 could have. The frame buffer always needs the highest bandwidth of anything on a gaming system and the Xbox One and Ps4 both have similar memory bandwidth. In some instances in the future the Xbox one will actually have higher available bandwidth than the Ps4. If you take the average numbers from the digital foundry interview with the X1 architects you get 150 Gb/s from esram and I believe it was 58 Gb/s from Ddr3 you get over 200 Gb/s total for the Gpu alone on the Xbox One. It is going to be harder to obtain by developers but it can be done.

    • Xtreme Derp

      Splitting the render target between two memory pools is complicated and comes with drawbacks, and may not be worth it compared to fitting in ESRAM. Even then 3rd party devs probably won’t bother.

      ESRAM size is an additional potential bottleneck on top of bandwidth and ROPs.

      200 GB/s is a napkin math figure with no bearing on real world games performance. It doesn’t matter if Xbox can hit “200GB/s” in some contrived benchmark test or for 0.001 seconds at a peak rate, if it’s only 130-150 sustained.

      In reality PS4 has a faster sustained rate and the advantage of being a unified pool. According to Project Cars devs PS4 has faster memory bandwidth.

    • Jacob S

      Both systems BW is really quite close- both are out putting about 150gb X1 w/esram. They like the unified memory because it is easier to work with. X1 sdk was lagging behind and MS was changing memory allocations all the time; that’s why launch 3rd party games are lagging behind PS4. We haven’t really seen the benefits from Esram yet. For GPU calculations X1 is going to be faster than PS4 because of Esrams faster BW & it is on the same die as the GPU. X1 will have a advantage on multi threaded apps with the cloud – physics, ai and other CPU calcs can be handled by cloud servers (getting compressed and un compressed by additional X1 processors) passing larger calcs to the GPU and freeing up CPU power- where the bottleneck is for most CPU demanding games (ie Crytek~ Cryengine)- frame rate issues start with the CPU. This GPU talk is ok yeah we know PS4 has a little bit more GPU power than X1… but in the end the X1 will be able to use what it has better- maybe not enough to nullify the PS4 advantage, but it is way too soon to count MS out- there is just a lot more ‘moving’ parts in the X1 that once it is all tuned, there is power to be gained. Really, even the OS/UI we know Sony has a ‘light’ OS. Where X1 has a ‘heavy’ OS- really 3x OS and a way more demanding UI. How much more can Sony knock off- Seems Sony did a nice job from the start. While MS is going to be able to dumb down and lighten the OS and the UI freeing up who knows how much power (if like windows8, a lot). Plus the cloud can give a connected X1 a lot of power esp with faster internet connections and MS data compression techniques.

    • ps4lol

      LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUMB AS ROCKS CONSTANTLY WRONG EVIL MICROSOFT FANBOY SHILL.,../

    • justerthought

      When the PS4 is rendering 64bit data to GDDR5 RAM within the bandwidth bound ceiling. That is the ceiling. it can go no higher than 64bit. Any higher and it hits the ROP (Raster Operation Pipeline) ceiling. When the ROP becomes ROP bound it cannot draw frames any faster.

      The XB1 can transmit data 64bit data to the ESRAM within the bandwidth bound ceiling, but the ESRAM is too small to store a rendered 1080p frame. So frames have to be rendered to the slow DDR3 RAM but this has a lower bandwidth making 32bit data hit the bandwidth bound ceiling. It cannot render 64bit. Too much data per second.

  • malota

    My life is my game and how I play it determines whether I win or loose.

  • Reaper

    I was under the impression PS4 used OpenGL not DirectX?

    • Guest

      PS4 has its own proprietary API so far as I know…it does not use DX nor pure OpenGL, but a modified version of it

    • Reaper

      I’m pretty sure it uses OpenGL in some form but my point is this article is comparing PS4 vs Xbox one using direct x? So if PS4 doesn’t use Direct X then this article is utter BS.

    • justerthought

      Yes PS4 is basically using OpenGL. Sony have added additional features to the latest OpenGL build, but it is still OpenGL. Anyone who can programme OpenGL programmes it in exactly the same way, but has additional graphics tools to match and surpass DX11. The general consensus among programmers is that OpenGL is easier to programme than DX11 and runs game code more efficiently.

    • Reaper

      The general consensus amongst myself is that OpenGL is used because its open source therefore FREE. Also PS4 is using a 3yr old version of OpenGL (unless its been updated recently) so your claims that its surpassed DirectX have no relevance.

    • justerthought

      Just because OpenGL is free does not mean it’s no good. Tests have proved OpenGL runs code more efficiently than DirectX. Sony engineers updated OpenGL for PS4. The improvements Sony made to OpenGL match the features of DX11 and even surpass them in some areas. You should have known that if you’re so knowledgable on the subject.

      When DX12 comes out, Sony will just upgrade OpenGL again.

  • supergamester

    Xbox has better games and has native support for dx11 where Ps4 does not and all Ps4 1st party games run at 30fps =junk overhyped with crap game

    • justerthought

      The games have only just started. The PS4 will have the best games and the largest varied library. Same as always. XB1 supports native DX11, but PS4 supports native OpenGL 4.4 which supports everything DX11 does but is more powerful, easier to programme and is more efficient running game code. The devs use both but prefer OpenGL. I think you will find XB1 will be running the lower frame rate, lower res overhyped junk as you call it. Titanfall is a perfect example of a truly ugly game overhyped by the superior PC version.

  • justerthought

    This explains why XB1 ports have lower resolution or lower frame rate than the PS4 ports. For those that cannot understand it. The devs ran tests and is saying that the PS4 is rendering 64bit data when rendering to GDDR5 RAM, but the XB1 can only render 32bit data to the DDR3 RAM.

    When the amount of data hits the bandwidth ceiling of memory it is classed as bandwidth bound (all bandwidth is in use). When this happens, the GPU has to wait for data before it can finish rendering the next frame. The system that renders the frames is the ROP (Raster Operations Pipeline). When the ROP hits the maximum frames per sec because it is waiting for data, it is ROP bound and cannot render any faster.

    The dev is claiming the PS4 can render 64bit data within its bandwidth ceiling because it is rendering to fast GDDR5 RAM. The XB1 can render 64bit data to the fast ESRAM, but the ESRAM is too small, so rendering has to go to the slow DDR3 RAM which becomes bandwidth bound with anything bigger than 32bit data. XB1 cannot render 64bit data to the slow DDR3 RAM because it hits the ceiling causing the ROP to become ROP bound. The frame rate cannot go any faster.

    The bigger the bit size of the data, the more complex and detailed the graphics. Like when we went from 4bit consoles to 8bit consoles, then to 16bit consoles, then to 32bit consoles. PS4 is now 64bit, but although the XB1 is also a 64bit console, it appears to be limited to 32bit in practice due to a bandwidth bottleneck with the memory. That is big news and explains a lot.

    MS fanboys can no longer scoff at people constantly stressing the importance of GDDR5 RAM.


 

Copyright © 2009-2015 GamingBolt.com. All Rights Reserved.