Why PS4 And Xbox One May Not Face Memory Limitation Issues In The Long Run

Gamebase engineers talk about new consoles and memory limitations.

Posted By | On 21st, Sep. 2014 Under News | Follow This Author @GamingBoltTweet


xbox-one_ps4

Developers faced a ton of issues due to memory limitations on the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 and their challenges increased multiple fold as the rate of adoption of more memory among PC gamers increased. In short, memory on consoles was lagging behind and as a result developers were facing serious issues while programming their games. But they still managed somehow and were able to deliver games like The Last of Us.

The new consoles i.e PS4 and Xbox One have a ton of memory now but we already have high end games on PC which already require 8GB of memory. So are we going to see a repeat of what happened last gen? GamingBolt raised this question to Bryan Tarlowski, Marketing Director at Gamebase and Yoonjae Hwang one of the lead engineers on Gamebryo, and also asked them how they will tackle this issue for their engine.

“In next release, Gamebryo will support 64-bit platforms, and 4GB RAM (or 3GB effectively) limit will be removed. Actually this is a requirement from the latest consoles and DCC tools [digital content creation]. On top of it, recent graphics APIs and platforms support GPU virtual memory. Combining both of them will largely reduce the limited memory issue,” the duo said to GamingBolt.

They also detailed the technical changes that they have made to the engine and its source code so that it’s up to players’ expectations from the PS4 and Xbox One.

“One of the key trends in the latest rendering APIs is commandbuffer basedrendering, which enables multi-core CPU utilization for sending graphics commands to GPU, Gamebryo is making progress in increasing this functionality. Also, rather than forcing developers to use a specific lighting/shading scheme like physically based rendering, we are working to offer more flexible material system that allows artists to express their imagination intuitively.”

“To that end, our artists tools, including DCC tool plugins will be deeply integrated to Max/Maya in order to aid artists in producing more detailed in-game graphics.”

We will have more coverage for GameBryo in the coming days so stay tuned.


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  • d0x360

    Oh god I could talk for days about how bad gamebryo is but I won’t. I’ve done it before here already.

    Let’s talk about their memory comment. It shows how inept as a middleware team they are. Having 8 gigs of ram is great, but neither system has all 8 dedicated to games. Even if they did its never enough. If you give them 8 they will fill 8 and want 12. More memory means more room to grow so there is never enough. There never has been and never will be. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about.

    God I hate gamebryo. The most bug ridden janky engine ever created.

    • Knowles2

      I’m sure there upper limit somewhere, after all once we can have a game as large and as complex as the real universe why keep adding more memory.

    • d0x360

      Yes, I’m sure we will hit universe level simulation sometime soon..the infinite universe

    • Sticky Notes

      Something like this would require a quantum memory system with entanglement principals. The memory would be so fast, it would really matter how much you had.

    • drjonesjnr

      Well if the ps3 can do games like the last of us with 512mg of ram god knows what naughty dog will do with 5gb of ram

  • Ricoh123

    The PS4 is limited.

    The XB1 has hardware tiled resources and is not limited.

    End thread.

    • Sticky Notes

      This doesn’t make any sense. Both are limited to their spec. Also, both support a method of tiled resources via their respective APIs.

    • Ricoh123

      Textures on the ps4 are limited by the ps4s ram.

      Textures on the xb1 are limited to the hard drive space.

      As you can see, the xb1 can use textures magnitudes larger than the ps4.

    • Sticky Notes

      No. Both api’s support tiled resources and middleware exist on both that hand texture streaming and compression from HDD.

      Granite SDK is one of those middlewares This site even reported on it.

      http://gamingbolt.com/ps4-games-could-see-increased-visual-fidelity-lesser-load-times-granites-texture-streaming-detailed

      You must be new to this type of tech. the information is available if you do some research tough so you can catch yourself up in no time.

    • bardock5151

      New information on new tech developed by Microsoft, NVIDIA and AMD only just publicly announced.

    • Mark

      Well GraphineSoft SDK is software method. More taxing on the processor. We shouldn’t be all arguing about this. But u should defenitely check out! Volume Tiled Rendering (or Voxel Based). Man we’re ALL in for some amazing graphics next year.

      http://wccftech.com/directx-11-3-api/

    • Michael Norris

      Dude both API’s support it,the MS version is better but in time you can bet the tiled resource will get much better for OpenGL.

    • Ricoh123

      Only the xbox 1 had the hardware to process it. The ps4 is stuck with software emulation of it.

      It’s basically as good as saying the ps4 can’t do it.

      The whole xbox 1 was built around it. That’s what the esram is for. And why the xb1 suffers on games that don’t utilise it correctly.

    • Iagainsti120

      Do you have the technical white papers to prove this?

    • Iagainsti120

      Evidence please.

    • bardock5151

      Its possible its there and possible its not, but Microsoft may have added in hardware acceleration for a advanced kind of TR/PRT. It does require use of voxels but new engines are starting to support it more and more. Ubisoft has tied into NVIDIA for special features on PC and may see that support cross over to consoles. There are more fixed function processors in the xbox that haven’t been detailed by Microsoft yet.

      http://www.anandtech.com/show/6972/xbox-one-hardware-compared-to-playstation-4/3
      its quite possible being Microsoft’s API and custom hardware that they’ve done more to the box than revealed. They know where hardware and software are going more than most so it makes sense. Aside from the facts presented in the link, the rest is circumstantial evidence.

    • Michael Norris

      Maybe the Move Engines could help but beyond that I doubt it.

    • Iagainsti120

      Sorry but PS4 supports tiled resources as well. Sony calls it PRT or partially resident textures. http://develop.scee.net/files/presentations/gceurope2013/ParisGC2013Final.pdf

    • Iagainsti120

      page 36

    • iMan Vious

      sony calls it PRT or do you mean PRT is what it’s called in openGL?

    • Iagainsti120

      AMD, OpenGL, and Sony, call it PRT. Microsoft calls it Tiled Resources.

    • iMan Vious

      one has tiled resources and the other has PRT which are essentially the same thing but only one has the architecture that will benefit greatly from it.
      one has a decent sized cache along with 4 extra lanes that does LZ compression and decompression on their own..
      anyway, I wonder what NVidia calls it
      also, isn’t PRT software based? while tiled resources is hardware based? correct me if i’m wrong.

    • Iagainsti120

      Both are in hardware.

    • GHz

      They are similar technologies but have their differences. PRT is limited to textures only while Tile Resources is not. Hense the “resources” in the title. TR > PRT.

    • Iagainsti120
    • GHz

      Look just because you have 8 upvotes and a couple of links you don’t understand don’t make you right. Sorry.

      The 1st link is from some dude name Wolfgang Engel. Just because he has graphic designer as a heading before explaining things don’t make him the authority on MS tech. If you want to know the truth about TR, go directly to MS. Which brings me to your second link.

      The 1st line states “Windows 8.1 includes a new Direct3D feature called tiled resources”. The 1st Keywords is “windows 8.1”. Meaning not Linux, which extends to OpenGL. The 2nd keyword there is “new” . Why is it “new” when AMD GCN graphic cards had already started supported PRT via hardware, that is if you believe the false claim that that both TR and PRT are the same. Why call TR ‘new” then? They are the same right? That is just straight logic reasoning. The 2nd link from MS is already at odds with the 1st link.

      AT 2013 build conference, MS made it known, that its very own ver. of streaming texture, Tile Resources will be exclusive to the Xbox One and Windows 8.1. Key word “exclusive” . Why tell their partners, AMD, Nvidia, exclusive, if both PRT and TR are the same?

      PRT is supported by both XB1 and PS4 because of the AMD cards in them. TR is a step up from PRT, and it is a MS tech exclusive to Windows 8.1, 9 etc and XB1 which introduces new feature via hardware.

      In the video MS make another distinction between TR and PRT. They describe TR as a tech they are working on with both AMD and Nvidia. Why make such a claim when PRT is a AMD tech and had already made its debut via their GCN cards that is in both PS4 and XB1?

      Wolfgang Engel could be anybody. You want the truth about MS tech, go to MS.

    • Iagainsti120

      Please explain to me then what is so different between the two. You do not even try to get into this with that wall of text you posted. I have read almost every peice of information about Tiled Resources that Microsoft has released. That video you posted, i saw that entire conference live stream. There is no “new” information in it. “MS tech exclusive to Windows 8.1, 9 etc and XB1 which introduces new feature via hardware.” —Wut???

      Sorry man but no. The Xbox One uses AMD GCN 1.1 which has you guested it native support for PRT. The only part that is Microsoft exclusive is the API for DirectX. Which on “Windows” is exclusive to Windows 8.1. There is literally almost no information at all out there about “Tiled Resources”, but a wealth of information about PRT and Sparse Texturing. Sparse Texturing i believe was originally added to OpenGL 4.2. And that was 03/27/2012. Oh since you like videos here is one for you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MejJL87yNgI

    • GHz

      Before you even try to get to the technical stuff, understand what you are reading or hearing from MS, AMD, & Nvidia 1st. For the simple fact that you watched the entire build and still come up with the conclusion that MS did not implement nothing new says it all.

      Lets do some critical thinking. If PRT and TR are the same, then that makes it AMD tech right? So MS should have no claim to it, let alone relabel it TR, and try to repackage it as something new. Think about that for a min. Not only did MS say TR is new on their official website, but they also say it’s exclusive to windows 8 and XB1. Now wouldn’t that be a blatant lie if TR is exactly the same as PRT? Them saying its exclusive is a big clue that it has its differences. There is the more advance texture detail, one of TR biggest selling points. Unlike PRT, TR is not limited to textures. It can be used for advance shadow mapping which PRT cannot do. That’s just a couple examples mentioned in the build. Maybe you were watching something else because it’s all there. Maybe you just don’t understand what they were saying. TR is all about higher fidelity with less memory. Rich with features not available to PRT. IF PRT was exactly the same as TR, MS couldn’t say it is exclusive to windows and XB1. Not when both the XB1 and Ps4 both house AMD GCN cards.

    • GHz

      Both systems will output great looking and fun playing games.

    • Michael Norris

      3rd party games won’t support it,enjoy the first party games though.

    • Ricoh123

      Yea. Third party games like tomb raider…….ooops, my bad 😉

    • GHz

      id’s upcoming game, Doom would most likely use both PRT & TR. Their game engine Tech 5 is built to take advantage of texture streaming. XB1 and PS4 have different ways of implementing the technique.

    • bardock5151

      Actually the chances of games supporting it is growing. Granite is seeing more usage, NVIDIA and Microsoft are putting lots of money and time behind advancing the tech.

      http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/8526?cPage=15&page=4
      There is a link straight to the more detailed rundown on DirectX in that article. 3rd party will go where performance, time and visual fidelity is better and at the moment this tech and other tie ins are the most promising path.
      I’m pretty sure Sony likes to think they crawled back up in sales Las gen through first party so I fail to see the point in that statement.

    • Jecht_Sin

      Pffft. Already implemented by AMD as an OpenGL extension in 2011 (to be later copied by MS in DX11.2):

      http://www.opengl.org/registry/specs/AMD/sparse_texture.txt

      While the XBone is still stuck with it’s miserable 1.31TFLOPS: End of story. :p

    • bardock5151

      The guys building software around this tech are quite adamant that latency is a big thing, after that any help with compression/decompression is going to be nothing but highly useful.

      Careful throwing around numbers like that because its embarrassing that you think in relativity 1.8 is a huge gain(its not, its still quite measly especially compared to PC).

      Look at certain GPU’s on the market for PC primarily from the same family and see how some GPU’s have better benchmarks despite lower counts in almost every area, or even how certain GPU’s perform better for a certain game despite being less powerful than another. Both examples are dependant on hardware acceleration and/or drivers, NVIDIA beefed up their existing GPU’s with new drivers(more than other updates had done previously). Don’t call the generation over until new hardware is released, especially considering the fact that we’re only 10 months in. Oh and check out this cool new tech.

      http://www.anandtech.com/Show/Index/8526?cPage=15&page=4
      Microsoft and NVIDIA doing some really heavy stuff.

  • Nintendo Fan 4 Lif3

    Show me the money, Bryan Tarlowski

  • benbenkr

    Memory?

    No. GPU and CPU resources will tap out in a few years now that the proper, next-gen GPUs are rolling out.


 

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